Hey man, homophones are phones too. Chill out.
Hey man, homophones are phones too. Chill out.
Are you serious??? For those of you who think Goucher wouldn't make the top-7 on CU's current team (or if he did he'd be 4th or 5th runner) must be like 14-years-old. First off, Goucher took 2nd place at NCAA XC Championships in 1994...as a true "freshman". That doesn't just happen by luck...that's supreme talent at its best. In 1998 as a senior, he'd take the individual title. Trust me, CU currently has a very talented "group", but they don't have an Adam Goucher. Saarel looks promising...but he will need to improve to even match Goucher 's collegiate career...much less surpass him. So would Goucher make the current team? Without question. Even a freshman Goucher makes this squad. Don't forget either that Wetmore was only in his 1st year as head XC coach at CU in 1994 and was really just beginning to crafti his system. I'll agree that distance running in the NCAA is definitely deeper than it was during Goucher's era, but it's not necessarily faster up front. The top ten runners in 1994 thru 1998 would still be top NCAA runners in 2014. There's not really a debate here. Funny how quickly the stars of the past are forgotten! Hmmm...could Michael Jordan even make the current Cleveland Cavs team???
look at track times and then compare. XC courses change and so does the weather, footing, etc. The track never lies. A 5k on the track is the same for the current CU squad as is everything else. So this question is silly. None of the current squad has run as fast as Goucher yet and many of the other CU runners including Torres, Cullpepper, ritz, pifer, vaughn, etc. The records still hold and none of the current squad are holding CU records…just yet.
Silly question, but obviously depends on which version of Goucher.
As a freshman at CU? Finished 2nd in the NCAA XC, ahead of Sullivan, Culpepper (SR), Meb, and others - so yes, even as a frosh he would make the current squad.
As a senior? Easily their top runner.
In his prime? Duh. He won both short and long courses at USTAF in 2000 and finished 6th at World XC (8 secs. behind Bekele).
Today? There is s reason he is retired.
What a silly thread. Adam Goucher was a Footlocker champion in high school and went on to win 4 NCAA titles while at Colorado, including one in cross country. The year after graduating he ran 3:54 in the mile and 13:11 in the 5K. There is no one currently at that level on the Colorado team.
He was a freshman, no need to add the 'true.'
jero wrote:
Are you serious??? For those of you who think Goucher wouldn't make the top-7 on CU's current team (or if he did he'd be 4th or 5th runner) must be like 14-years-old. First off, Goucher took 2nd place at NCAA XC Championships in 1994...as a true "freshman". That doesn't just happen by luck...that's supreme talent at its best. In 1998 as a senior, he'd take the individual title. Trust me, CU currently has a very talented "group", but they don't have an Adam Goucher. Saarel looks promising...but he will need to improve to even match Goucher 's collegiate career...much less surpass him. So would Goucher make the current team? Without question. Even a freshman Goucher makes this squad. Don't forget either that Wetmore was only in his 1st year as head XC coach at CU in 1994 and was really just beginning to crafti his system. I'll agree that distance running in the NCAA is definitely deeper than it was during Goucher's era, but it's not necessarily faster up front. The top ten runners in 1994 thru 1998 would still be top NCAA runners in 2014. There's not really a debate here. Funny how quickly the stars of the past are forgotten! Hmmm...could Michael Jordan even make the current Cleveland Cavs team???
zxcvbnm,fgfd wrote:
jero wrote:Are you serious??? For those of you who think Goucher wouldn't make the top-7 on CU's current team (or if he did he'd be 4th or 5th runner) must be like 14-years-old. First off, Goucher took 2nd place at NCAA XC Championships in 1994...as a true "freshman". That doesn't just happen by luck...that's supreme talent at its best. In 1998 as a senior, he'd take the individual title. Trust me, CU currently has a very talented "group", but they don't have an Adam Goucher. Saarel looks promising...but he will need to improve to even match Goucher 's collegiate career...much less surpass him. So would Goucher make the current team? Without question. Even a freshman Goucher makes this squad. Don't forget either that Wetmore was only in his 1st year as head XC coach at CU in 1994 and was really just beginning to crafti his system. I'll agree that distance running in the NCAA is definitely deeper than it was during Goucher's era, but it's not necessarily faster up front. The top ten runners in 1994 thru 1998 would still be top NCAA runners in 2014. There's not really a debate here. Funny how quickly the stars of the past are forgotten! Hmmm...could Michael Jordan even make the current Cleveland Cavs team???
He was a freshman, no need to add the 'true.'
As opposed to redshirt freshman
OP, men's or women's team? please specify
You bros and broettes need a far better joke detector.
Love that Rojo bit on it as well.
Adam Goucher made the Colorado program the powerhouse that it is today More so than even Whetmore.
Even only competing three years as a collegiate.
Without him do you think Jorge Torres and Ritzenhein would have went there?
Colorado always had strong teams in cross some years but Goucher turned it into a dynasty like Oregon, Wisconsin, or Arkansas.
Goucher competed for 5 years for the Buffs. Are you mixing up he and Ritz perhaps?
George Atlas wrote:
Adam Goucher made the Colorado program the powerhouse that it is today More so than even Whetmore.
Even only competing three years as a collegiate.
Without him do you think Jorge Torres and Ritzenhein would have went there?
Colorado always had strong teams in cross some years but Goucher turned it into a dynasty like Oregon, Wisconsin, or Arkansas.
BUFFfan wrote:
look at track times and then compare. XC courses change and so does the weather, footing, etc. The track never lies. A 5k on the track is the same for the current CU squad as is everything else. So this question is silly. None of the current squad has run as fast as Goucher yet and many of the other CU runners including Torres, Cullpepper, ritz, pifer, vaughn, etc. The records still hold and none of the current squad are holding CU records…just yet.
not a good argument. i was the fastest 5k runner on the track, but was always number 3-5 runner on the xc team.
Wait a minute wrote:
Goucher competed for 5 years for the Buffs. Are you mixing up he and Ritz perhaps?
George Atlas wrote:Adam Goucher made the Colorado program the powerhouse that it is today More so than even Whetmore.
Even only competing three years as a collegiate.
Without him do you think Jorge Torres and Ritzenhein would have went there?
Colorado always had strong teams in cross some years but Goucher turned it into a dynasty like Oregon, Wisconsin, or Arkansas.
Adam Goucher was the first distance runner I recall that gave up NCAA eligibility to "go pro". I recall he signed a 6 figure deal with Fila. The fist time I ever recall an NCAA runner leave early for the money.
He had an outdoor season for Colorado that he skipped after his CR Indoor 3000.
Fila and 100k.
Goucher definitely used all his XC eligibility.
NCAA XC Championship results...
1994 - 2nd place (Fr.)
1995 - 6th place (So.)
1996 - Redshirt
1997 - 4th place (Jr.)
1998 - 1st place (Sr.)
Those results simply speak for themselves. That's 13 total points during his four NCAA cross races with 6th place being his "worst" finish.
Since 2004 (a ten year span) there have only three Colorado individual finishes higher than 6th place. Those came in 2007 by Brent Vaughn (5th) and in 2004 by Brent Vaughn (4th) and Brett Schoolmeester (5th).
On a side note: Vaughn was pretty good himself at NCAA XC nats...
4th in 2004
12th in 2006
5th in 2007.
Though he was only 110th in 2003 (Fr.)
True, true, he did leave before using all his eligibility. But he was at CU for 4.5 years. His freshman season in CC was 1994, where he placed second at NCAA. Then he finally won the title in 1998. He redshirted the '96 (I think?) CC season. So he was a collegiate for 4.5 years.
George Atlas wrote:
Wait a minute wrote:Goucher competed for 5 years for the Buffs. Are you mixing up he and Ritz perhaps?
Adam Goucher was the first distance runner I recall that gave up NCAA eligibility to "go pro". I recall he signed a 6 figure deal with Fila. The fist time I ever recall an NCAA runner leave early for the money.
v6 wrote:
You bros and broettes need a far better joke detector.
Love that Rojo bit on it as well.
Agree. 2/10 on the troll; 0/10 on the fish.
While he wouldn't be as far out front as he was in '98 (and it didn't help that the two guys who were in striking distance ended up dead and stress fractured, respectively), the times don't lie.
Stay Puft made the current CU squad, so therefore Adam Goucher is a shoe-in.
qwer wrote:
While he wouldn't be as far out front as he was in '98 (and it didn't help that the two guys who were in striking distance ended up dead and stress fractured, respectively), the times don't lie.
I don't see who you are talking about that is dead?