From the RnR site:
"The charity aspect proliferated participation, leading to more than $235 million dollars raised for participating charities."
"Help support your community, as well as thousands of runners and the walkers by volunteering! With almost 2,000 positions available there is a spot for everyone, including teams, corporate groups, or just friends and family."
d2xccoach wrote:
Interesting lawsuit when you read it through. Putting aside the question of whether a for-profit business (or anyone else for that matter) has the right or ability to not pay someone who does work for that business, it seems to me that in this case the plaintiff willing offered to perform certain duties for no financial remuneration. She had the free will to offer to volunteer or to not offer to volunteer. That she didn't fully understand the charitable position of the event she was volunteering for would seem to be on her, not on Competitor Group. To me, this is a lot different from a student who signs up as an intern, ostensibly to learn about a job or industry, and then is assigned a pile of grunt work to do. In that case, I've always seen it as purely a way for a business to unethically bring on free labor. But in this case it's not like the plaintiff was volunteering to be a bike escort to learn how about that side of race production.
I would use your argument against you. if an intern doesn't know that they will be making copies and taking coffee orders all summer than that is on them. And how do you know that those volunteers are not interested in learning about race management?
it is total crap wrote:
So sick of races using charity to enrich themselves.
There outta be a rule. If you say your race is about charity, you HAVE to disclose how much you are paying yourself and how much the company makes. Period.
Non-profits' financial statements are public information.
lol - you want to spend 300k on a dirt trail, 300k could provide 100 people aids treatment, and you want a hard packed dirt trail? your construction friend sounds like a con man, not much difference from competitor group.
fisky wrote:
Here's my pet peeve about big marathons... first, here's some data from our local marathon.
Participants: 30,000+
Revenue to Competitor: >$3 million
Revenue to charities: millions
Increased revenue to local businesses: Est. >$20-$30 million (couldn't find source so I'm remembering this.)
Of this $3M to Competitor Group, millions to charities, and $20M to local commerce, how much comes back to the local running community? The answer is not much at all.
It should be at least $100,000/year. The construction company that built one of our bike paths told me that they could build an 8-mile dirt running path for about $300,000... not a single track trail, but an honest to goodness 10 foot wide, hard packed dirt trail.
This is what I'd prefer to see, but it's going to take local runners and running clubs to demand it.
For four hours of intense packet pick-up work, I received a shirt, some bottled water, snacks and a ticket to get into the concert area the next day. Had a good time yakking with other helpers and seeing my running buds. The runners paid probably on the average about $90 to get basically the same items (plus a closed run course). I wasn't doing rocket surgery, so I think it was a fair exchange of services.
wrong. competitor is the single organization, aside from NYRR's marathon and half marathon, that has pushed entry fees sky-high already. And this has to do with for profit versus nonprofit. True nonprofits won't be affected at all. Football teams like the Bucs, however, will be.
There have been a few of these lawsuits: PGA and I think NFL have been sued for the same reason.
To me, if you volunteer then you agree that you will not be paid. By definition a volunteer is not expecting to be paid. It does not matter if the entity is a for profit or not.
truly a fascinating read. The plaintiff was a bicycle rider beside the elites. That's above and beyond your typical water station helper.
Apparently, the plaintiff had to use their own phone.
The fact that it's mentioned is very important.
Point #34: She also had to provide her own bike.
Well here are some stories
I cannot find a story on PGA, but I know that when a LPGA tournament was held in my town the volunteers actually had to pay to volunteer. Now that is quite the scam! (Although a person has the choice not to participate so it is really not a scam--it was very upfront once you contacted the organizer).
luv2run wrote:
To me, if you volunteer then you agree that you will not be paid. By definition a volunteer is not expecting to be paid. It does not matter if the entity is a for profit or not.
You could say the same thing about any wage that is below minimum wage. A person who agrees to be paid $3/hr by definition does not expect to be paid minimum wage, yet it is still illegal to pay someone $3/hr in most cases.
"To me, if you volunteer then you agree that you will not be paid. By definition a volunteer is not expecting to be paid. It does not matter if the entity is a for profit or not."
Ah, but what if you volunteered UNDER the pretense that the organizer was a non-profit and that ALL proceeds would go to charity.
"On Sept. 23, a Saint Louis University law professor filed a potential class action lawsuit asking for wages for volunteers at marathons organized by what she had originally assumed was a nonprofit – but isn’t. "
This is about disclosure and transparency.
There are also rules aka laws for using volunteers by for-profit ventures, right?
You can't use unpaid volunteers to fill your labour requirements either directly or indirectly.
luv2run, but isn't the football league a non-profit?
I can see where this ends up.
The race organizing groups will re-incorporate as non-profits.
And there is no rule against non-profits paying themselves, the managers, obscene salaries...
Some CEOs of big non-profits are making bank. Right?
I am not a lawyer, but I think the plaintiffs are making a pretty good argument - if you're for-profit, you should pay the minimum wage.
I took part in a "Marie Curie" cyclosportif this year, another for-profit event with none of my fairly substantial entry fee went to charity. The well-known cancer charity were merely a "charity partner" doing their own fundraising on the back of the event, in exchange for the naming rights. To be fair, the organisers made it pretty clear during the sign-up process that none of my money was going to charity (although some participants I spoke to clearly hadn't realised this), but they also recruited "volunteers", and I wonder how many of them thought they worked for the benefit of Marie Curie. I will watch this case with interest.
Also see:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/jun/20/charity-bike-ride
Nobody forced them to Volunteer. You can volunteer cleaning a local McDonalds and then can't say McDonalds need to pay me for voluteering.
Surely Phelps wrote:
Nobody forced them to Volunteer. You can volunteer cleaning a local McDonalds and then can't say McDonalds need to pay me for voluteering.
Except that McDonald's would not allow you to volunteer in that capacity because they know that they would in fact have to pay you at least minimum wage for the time you worked. In other words, you are a liar.
The were lots of volunteers for the Diamond League event at Icahn.
Surely Phelps wrote:
Nobody forced them to Volunteer. You can volunteer cleaning a local McDonalds and then can't say McDonalds need to pay me for voluteering.
No. Read the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). FLSA both requires a federal minimum wage and also restricts volunteering for for-profit private sector employees:
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/docs/volunteers.aspThis lawsuit has merit and a chance of success.
Which is exactly why the end result is probably going to be all big runs will eventually be run by a "non-profit" with no downside to the owners/management.
For example, there's a running group that is a non-profit in the biggest city in the states that pays the top person over $500k per year. $500k+ salary for someone running a running non-profit! They get loads of volunteers too.
So these companies can become non-profit and pay themselves millions and still have volunteers. Lots of non-running non-profits do it already.
+1
More people need to be talking about races, how much they cost, and where all that money is actually going!