Elite female HS Senior needs program/coaching as 400m/800m runner

"Extremely dedicated runner, very coachable, works hard and always puts out best effort.

Planning to run winter track as part of program and then start HS track first part of March.

Has trained for 400m starting in Fall for past 2 years with quality programs, but need help with a 400m/800m program and training, as new to 800m training.

Do to unfortunate circumstances past 2 years, was unable to reach potential.

Coaching would be a huge help too.

Have 1080p60 video camera for documentation/online communication and can travel within Washington/Oregon for in-person coaching."

It would be appreciated to keep the posts constructive and positive, about the above message

Moving up to the 800m this year, mile next year, simple as that.

I have talked with many other coaches and the trainer I have been working with this past year (also the trainer for Oregon Nike Project) who also agrees that THIS YEAR the 800m, next year the mile, move up gradually.

Still need to be competitive in HS track this year, 400m and now 800m are "favorite" events and will be very competitive at State this season.

I don't believe this years 400m PR was indicative of what would have been if had not gotten sick in May and will find out later this/next year.

The track coach does not do the training during off-season for many reasons, one of which, it would be a violation of out-of-season rules, which is not the main reasons, but those reasons don't need to be posted here.

Really hope there is the right person out their to help out with this.

Some additional information:

Was on the HS varsity girls cross country team both Freshman and Sophomore year.

Both years team placed in top 5 at State Championships.

Freshman year was #5 on team, Sophomore year was #4.

Ran 20:16 at State freshman year.

Your runner is not elite and you are aurgumentative. This thread needs to stop.

Balian wrote:

How does your high school coach feel about having another coach in the mix?

Sounds like a conflict of interest.

OP, I don't know why everyone is so negative here, but if a parent takes interest and some responsibility, financial and otherwise in a teen's sport, my belief is that it can only be a good thing. If the school doesn't offer a program and coach or the coaching is inexpert and/or the school doesn't fund a bus to events out of the area, then your daughter's best shot is private coaching and out of pocket entry fees and travel expenses. Even with a reasonable school program this is probably the ideal approach if the genetics and talent justify the effort and expense.

And thaat is the real question. While the posters saying she ain't D1 material may be right, they may not, and it's worthwhile to find out her real potential. Now. This year.

Good luck and don't let the naysayers stop you from trying. Many parents only discourage/do not pay or participate/only allow participation in the official scholl team, etc. You should be commended for your interest and willingness to help.

"OP, I don't know why everyone is so negative here, but if a parent takes interest and some responsibility, financial and otherwise in a teen's sport, my belief is that it can only be a good thing. If the school doesn't offer a program and coach or the coaching is inexpert and/or the school doesn't fund a bus to events out of the area, then your daughter's best shot is private coaching and out of pocket entry fees and travel expenses. Even with a reasonable school program this is probably the ideal approach if the genetics and talent justify the effort and expense.

And thaat is the real question. While the posters saying she ain't D1 material may be right, they may not, and it's worthwhile to find out her real potential. Now. This year.

Good luck and don't let the naysayers stop you from trying. Many parents only discourage/do not pay or participate/only allow participation in the official scholl team, etc. You should be commended for your interest and willingness to help."

Thank you for the thoughtful words.

Yes, so many responses that have nothing to do with the original post and have no bearing anyways.

First, a DII pre-med school is probably what she will attend during her first 4 years... again, other posters injecting their own thoughts that have no bearing at all... all this talk about "D1", when more than likely she will attend a DII school, as so far that seems the best 'fit'.

By the way, a Florida D1 head coach noticed this thread and sent an email wants to talk recruitment.

Bump...

"I thought about this a bit and concluded that I'd need to see a ~56 400 if I was looking to convert a quarter miler into an 800m runner. Between 57 and 60 I'd move them to the 1500. After that is be looking to move them to the SC or 5k/10k."

Those conclusions with virtually no information is plenty proof you are a poser.

Moving up to the 800m this year, mile next year, simple as that.

I have talked with many other coaches and the trainer I have been working with this past year (also the trainer for Oregon Nike Project) who also agrees that THIS YEAR the 800m, next year the mile, move up gradually.

So when I suggest she move to the 1500 I'm a poser but when you talk to the Oregon Project coaches you agree to move her to the mile. What names did you call them?

I'm file this thread under Helicopter Parenting. You have several aspirations for your daughter (track and pre-med) and are overreaching on her behalf. Just let her set her own course. Trust me, the Oregon Project does not want to hear about the 3rd place finisher of Washington's District 6 400m. Just relax and enjoy your last 9 months that your daughter will live at home. If she's destined to be a track star it will happen on her terms.

The thread was about getting coaching/program for 400/800m.

So, I made a mistake in putting "elite" in my post, so what?

You have not posted anything to that effect, everything from the mile, to D1 colleges ect. all of which, as I have told you before have no bearing.

In your very first post, "I thought about this a bit" then you make suggestions that have nothing to do with the OP, you started to make it 'about you'. I probably should not have replied or called you a 'poser' but you most certainly have proven me right, and then some.

When I talked to coaches and the trainer months ago, about moving up to the 800m and possibly the mile, they agreed with me that it should be done gradually, just like I posted.... this year.

They did NOT suggest the mile, and I only discussed as a possibility in the future, NOT FOR THIS YEAR, GET IT????

LIKE IN MY OP, train for the 400m/800m, and NEXT YEAR see about the mile.

There is NOTHING about the mile in my OP, as it does NOT relate to this year and won't even be addressed until NEXT YEAR, depending on performance, if at all.

You are the one who has got his panties in a bind, because I called BS on your response, as it did not reflect to the OP.

Your posts were all about 'you', not about the OP, I don't think you even read through any of my posts before you replied... ok, get it?

Your last post is quite childish.

Your comments, insults, attempts to publicly identify and otherwise try to humiliate proves my point, you are a poser and an ass.

Please, do not post to this thread, this thread is not about you, ok? Take your complex somewhere else.

Bump.

My issue with this is the fact that you said:

"Efraimson is a perfect example for 'my point', as I was showing how categorizing an athlete with very limited information (just their 400m PR stat)is inaccurate."

You stated that categorizing an athlete with very limited information is inaccurate, but almost every knowledgeable individual in this forum knows about Alexa Efraimson's performances and her achievements as a runner are not "limited". So either you really didn't know about Efraimson's history or you clearly didn't understand what many people in this thread were trying to say.

The only information you've provided is that this senior girl has run 57, 2:20, and 20:16. If you truly wanted to make a case for the comparison to Efraimson, then why don't you give us an entire breakdown of this senior girls past performances? And if her performances matched up with Efraimson's 2:03, 4:07 and NXN championship performance, then you'd have truly valid point.

Many people in this thread weren't being "argumentative". They were simply stating facts that you interpreted as "argumentative". If you really wanted to keep this thread "positive", you would have kept the focus on your athlete and not compared her to every elite athlete you could find online that had relatively similar 400 PR's to this senior girl.

So if you want people on this thread to start taking you seriously, then please, be realistic about the things you are presenting in this thread.

don't feed the troll . . .

[Some additional information:

Was on the HS varsity girls cross country team both Freshman and Sophomore year.

Both years team placed in top 5 at State Championships.

Freshman year was #5 on team, Sophomore year was #4.

20:16 was a top 5 time at State?

The number 5 runner placed in the top 5?

The state of confusion?

Is the OP the athlete or the parent. Seem to be flipping back and forth.

Whuh? wrote:

[Some additional information:

Was on the HS varsity girls cross country team both Freshman and Sophomore year.

Both years team placed in top 5 at State Championships.

Freshman year was #5 on team, Sophomore year was #4.

20:16 was a top 5 time at State?

The number 5 runner placed in the top 5?

No, 20:16 was her time at state and she was the 5th fastest on her team, not 5th fastest out of the whole state.

I just have to say that as a coach who works with high school through to post collegiate athletes, I cannot imagine working with this athlete if her father is anywhere near as big of a jerk as he comes across in this thread. The potential for conflict with the helicopter parent is just way too high to be worth it.

And all your excuses about your times make it seem like you don't really want to work hard at all.

need coach/program wrote:

"I thought about this a bit and comcluded that I'd need to see a ~56 400 if I was looking to convert a quarter miler into an 800m runner. Between 57 and 60 I'd move them to the 1500. After that is be looking to move them to the SC or 5k/10k."

Those conclusions with virtually no information is plenty proof you are a poser.

People have events they are better at. Saying to move up gradually is stupid, especially going from 400 to 1500. If your speed isn't good enough to win 400 at the level you want, then run the 800 and put in more miles. If your 800 speed isn't enough to win the 800's you want, put in more miles and try the 1500. Don't think you are going to successfully run the 400 and 800 and be elite, and then move to the 1500 or above and be successful.

First, please read again:

"Efraimson is a perfect example for 'my point', as I was showing how categorizing an athlete with very limited information (just their 400m PR stat)is inaccurate."

From that statement how do you get to: "compared her to every elite athlete you could find online"????

Again, I stated:

"Efraimson is a perfect example for 'my point', as I was showing how categorizing an athlete with very limited information (just their 400m PR stat)is inaccurate."

Which was in response to 'Cape Disappointment's' post of:

"I'd need to see a ~56 400 if I was looking to convert a quarter miler into an 800m runner. Between 57 and 60 I'd move them to the 1500. After that is be looking to move them to the SC or 5k/10k"

The ONLY comparison was the 400m time, to prove my point, that you can't just use 400m time to judge an athlete.

You are twisting everything around... yes, of course anyone who knows anything about current elite athletes knows of Efraimson's accomplishments/records in other distances, but, you did not comprehend the sentence and twisted it to mean something totally different.. if you correctly read:

"Efraimson is a perfect example for 'my point', as I was showing how categorizing an athlete with very limited information (just their 400m PR stat)is inaccurate."

You would understand that the TWO examples I used, the ONLY COMPARISON was the 400m time... which, as I said in the above statement, is an INACCURATE comparison because not enough information is used. Obviously, it was not putting my daughter in the same 'elite' class as these TWO athletes.

Looking at this another way.

For 2014 in Washington, including 1A, 1B, 2B, 2A, 3A,& 4A there were only TEN (Five were Seniors) who ran less than 57 400m.

So, by 'Cape Disappointment's' logic, only those TEN (or Five, as he was judging as a Junior) girls would 'qualify' to run the 800m, the rest should be distributed to longer distances?.... this is ridiculous.

Considering the 'crop' of Washington runners, with this logic, I doubt he has any 400/800/1600m runners!

The same Washington list shows that only SEVEN (Four of them Seniors) 800m runners were faster than 2:12, only TWO (BOTH Seniors) of which could approach anything near less than 57.x.

When you look at the top ten Washington 1600m runners for 2014... Only FIVE (Two were Seniors) of these runners EVER ran LESS than a 60 400m, only TWO (One a Senior) could approach a 57.x 400m, and only FIVE (Two are Seniors) ran under 2:12 in the 800m.

Leading up to 2014 State Champ. in mid-May, as I said, caught Mono from team mate, did not find out until 2nd round of blood tests in July.

This severely effected performance up to and especially, the pre-lims at State Champ.

First blood tests early June as performance/symptoms continued to worsen.

First tests found anemia (due to cutting red meat from diet and not enough iron replenished that was lost due to training).

First limited training (easy, 2 days week) to cool temperatures as heat made training/running not possible.

After first couple weeks stopped training all together and dropping from sprints as it caused symptoms to worsen and performance dropped to point where not 'enjoyable' anymore.

Doctors said fine to compete, to continue to let how she felt dictate if she ran or not... this is still before the 2nd round of blood testing, all we knew was she was anemic, which Mono mimics the same symptoms.

Instead of stopping altogether, she decided to try 800m, she only ran 2 times before, once in 6th grade, once in 8th grade, as she felt it would be 'easy' just 'jogging'.

Mid summer, as she could not run in any heat at all, and had already stopped training 3 or more weeks earlier, we tried a 'All Comer' meet in the Seattle area. It seemed perfect, as it was an Evening meet.

She wanted to try the 100m again, as it was at 6:00pm, in much cooler weather and the 800m, which was at 9:00pm.

She did not do well at all in the 100m, as it was still over 80 degrees.

She ran the 800m at 9:00pm, which was in the low 70's high 60's, she ran with the 'leader' the first lap, then passed her, winning by over 8 seconds with a 2:24 time...

A couple weeks later she ran the 800m again, at the same evening 'All Comer' meet, but this time had more competition and ran against males too.

She finished First again, in girls, with a time of 2:20.51.

At this point, she had not trained in over a month, plus the fact she was still had symptoms of both anemia and Mono.

About a week later, after doing a 2nd set of blood tests, found out that she had had Mono, received two iron IV's for the anemia, and at that time, all running ended and she has fully recovered since.

With a good program, reaching 2:12 is very possible, even 2:10, I believe.

Those 800m athletes who are left over from the 2014 4A State Championships, the fastest ran a 2:14.x, so, not only the 800m being what she wants to run, it makes for a good reason to run the 800m.

As I also stated, she has had 2 years in a row where she was not able to reach her potential.

In 2012, because of personal reasons, she did not start HS track until April, ran in 3 meets, then was mis-diagnosed with a supposed injury that ended her HS season at end of April and lost over a month of training before going to a different doctor, who 'fixed' the issue in one visit.

Your statement:

"Many people in this thread weren't being "argumentative". They were simply stating facts that you interpreted as "argumentative". If you really wanted to keep this thread "positive", you would have kept the focus on your athlete and not compared her to every elite athlete you could find online that had relatively similar 400 PR's to this senior girl.

So if you want people on this thread to start taking you seriously, then please, be realistic about the things you are presenting in this thread"

Again, as I have stated a number of times, this is not a thread about what event is to be ran, it is not about if she is a D1 athlete, etc. it is:

"female HS Senior needs program/coaching as 400m/800m runner"

Yourself, and others have twisted what I have said and added their own agenda to the thread to the point it resembles nothing to the title.

I am very realistic in what she is capable of, and most of the posters have been negative in what she CAN'T do, posting things that have nothing to do with the OP, as I have said.

Most posters have not even taken the time to read close enough to comprehend what is said, they just jump in with their own agenda and make broad posts that are neither accurate nor have anything to do with the OP.

I have been doing this for over 5 years now, at first to keep her from hurting herself because she was over zealous about training herself to the point of shin splints, protecting her from injury, to proper training for sprints.

Now, I would like some help with adding 800m training and would appreciate to be able to get to a point where that is where the communication goes...

I have been a member of elitetrack.com and charliefrancis.com for over 5 years and the type of responses I have received here would NEVER have been allowed on those boards.

Let's make sure we have the facts straight.

The thread is titled "Elite female HS Senior needs program/coaching as 400m/800m runner".You backtracked when people started becoming "argumentative". And if you've been such a valued member of those two aforementioned websites, then why not go there and stop trolling these message boards.

You've continually used comparisons and statistics that hold no weight and even brought up a "trainer for Nike Oregon Project" in your posts to back up your statements. So if you know so many people in so many places, then finding a coach for this young lady shouldn't be a problem for you. Heck, you've already done so much research into the other girls in Washington and you have already predicted 2:10-2:12 with a good program... why don't you take the lead on coaching if you're so knowledgeable about her ceiling?

Oh, and if you're curious as to why you've received limited interest and more negative posts about this is because no one wants to deal with a helicopter parent/guardian like you involved in the situation which clearly you would be. I'm surprised you haven't acknowledged that point by now. Part of the issue is that you can't seem to understand why people are giving you a hard time, because you don't see yourself as a potential problem. If you look back on this thread, a lot of the negativity has nothing to do with your daughter, it's with you and the way you've presented your information to the general public.

P.S. I don't know why you would brag about being a member of a website connected to an individual who has had ties to steroid use in the past. Great idea.