Yuriy Borzakovskiy - 2004 Olympic 800 champ - retires

Moose wrote:

Most 800m greats were also right-handed. Try again.

That's because most people are right handed, not because it helps in the 800m. Most people are not 6 feet tall. Many 800m runners are 6 ft tall because it helps in the 800m.

Rudisha - 6'3"

Kipketer - 6'0"

Coe - 5'9"

Amos - 5'10"

Cruz - 6'2"

Khamis - 5'9"

Koskei - ???

Bungei - ???

Aman - 5'9"

Borzakovskiy - 6'0"

Kitum - 5'8"

Bosse - 6'0"

Bucher - ???

Rodal - 6'2"

Gray - 6'4"

400m runners are taller still. And 200m sprinters are the tallest.

Coe as a 5'9 runt ran 1:41.73, a time no one beat for 16 years.

If height were that important, someone would have bested it sooner.

Welsh Wizard wrote:

Not so sure its as minimal as you think. Look at the bleached pot holed old track Coe ran on in Florence. I'd say the top current fast mondo tracks like Monaco, Zurich, Rieti, etc would be at least 0.4 faster over 2 laps. Take away another 0.2-0.3 for running wide on the 3rd bend and Coe of 33 years ago is within a few tenths of the current WR.

And that's before looking at advances in training, physiology, psychology, injury recovery etc.

Coe was so far ahead of his time in term of every aspect of training.

There are no advances that have been made in training, physiology (wut?), psychology (wit?), etc

He was never running much faster than he did. Maybe 1:41.40 if he didn't have to run wide.

Coe also had a rabbit. Rudisha ran from the front with no rabbit. So to say he would be within a few tenths of the WR is apples to oranges.

Moose wrote:

Most 800m greats were also right-handed. Try again.

That's because most people are right handed, not because it helps in the 800m. Most people are not 6 feet tall. Many 800m runners are 6 ft tall because it helps in the 800m.

Rudisha - 6'3"

Kipketer - 6'0"

Coe - 5'9"

Amos - 5'10"

Cruz - 6'2"

Khamis - 5'9"

Koskei - ???

Bungei - ???

Aman - 5'9"

Borzakovskiy - 6'0"

Kitum - 5'8"

Bosse - 6'0"

Bucher - ???

Rodal - 6'2"

Gray - 6'4"

400m runners are taller still. And 200m sprinters are the tallest.

This doesn't show that being 6' is an advantage, so much as that it's probably not a disadvantage. It would seem that being in the range of average height -- 6'3 or so is important.

Ho Hum wrote:

Moose wrote:

That's because most people are right handed, not because it helps in the 800m. Most people are not 6 feet tall. Many 800m runners are 6 ft tall because it helps in the 800m.

Rudisha - 6'3"

Kipketer - 6'0"

Coe - 5'9"

Amos - 5'10"

Cruz - 6'2"

Khamis - 5'9"

Koskei - ???

Bungei - ???

Aman - 5'9"

Borzakovskiy - 6'0"

Kitum - 5'8"

Bosse - 6'0"

Bucher - ???

Rodal - 6'2"

Gray - 6'4"

400m runners are taller still. And 200m sprinters are the tallest.

This doesn't show that being 6' is an advantage, so much as that it's probably not a disadvantage. It would seem that being in the range of average height -- 6'3 or so is important.

This thread has degenerated into uber-nerdy nonsense.

your mom descended on uber-nerdy nonsense

Flo'da boy wrote:

Y'all take a look at the Borzakovskiy 4x25 thread for some great stuff

Link? I'm interested

Love skinny legs wrote:

Flo'da boy wrote:

Y'all take a look at the Borzakovskiy 4x25 thread for some great stuff

Link? I'm interested

Found it:

Coe had drafting from 200m to about 350, by which time he was already wide of the rabbit & receiving no drafting. Most of the sub 1:43 runners received more drafting than this (look at recent Monaco race), but yes Rudisha did it alone, which lost him about 0.2. I would suggest that this was more than compensated for by the most modern, up to date track surface for the 2012 Olympics as opposed to a beaten old & dilapidated synthetic track from the early 70's.

Amos run the exact same time as Coe in coming second to Rudisha in London & he received a lot more drafting & the advantage of having someone in front to aim for. This 'drags' you to even faster times. Put 81 Coe in Rudisha's slipstream in London and he finishes a lot closer to King David than Amos managed.

COE was hardly short .....

he was quite leggy and ectomorphic

which made up for those few inches

...so honorary 6 footer ...

Regardless of his exceling in many other aspects of event.

400,200,100 still possible .

in terms or records

very difficult especially if cant max endurance to

max with high hct or gw501516.

so stride length and height at premium.

especially with advent of IGF-1 LR3 USE IN EVENT .

[quote]Welsh Wizard wrote:

Look at the bleached pot holed old track Coe ran on in Florence. I'd say the top current fast mondo tracks like Monaco, Zurich, Rieti, etc would be at least 0.4 faster over 2 laps. Take away another 0.2-0.3 for running wide on the

3rd bend /quote]

And add at least 1 second for the short track and/or faulty timing system, and another second for if he were clean.

If it were anyone but Coe, this MB would jump all over an outlying 1:41.73 performed at relatively primitive facilities by an athlete who never approaches it again. It was the second and last sub-1:43 in Coe's long career.

Moose wrote:

Rudisha - 6'3"

Kipketer - 6'0"

Coe - 5'9"

Amos - 5'10"

Cruz - 6'2"

Khamis - 5'9"

Koskei - ???

Bungei - ???

Aman - 5'9"

Borzakovskiy - 6'0"

Kitum - 5'8"

Bosse - 6'0"

Bucher - ???

Rodal - 6'2"

Gray - 6'4"

400m runners are taller still. And 200m sprinters are the tallest.

Don't forget Juantorena who was 6 foot 3. Duane Solomon too. And Cram the Jarrow Giant ran sub 1:43.

Bad Wigins wrote:

[quote]Welsh Wizard wrote:

Look at the bleached pot holed old track Coe ran on in Florence. I'd say the top current fast mondo tracks like Monaco, Zurich, Rieti, etc would be at least 0.4 faster over 2 laps. Take away another 0.2-0.3 for running wide on the

3rd bend /quote]

And add at least 1 second for the short track and/or faulty timing system, and another second for if he were clean.

If it were anyone but Coe, this MB would jump all over an outlying 1:41.73 performed at relatively primitive facilities by an athlete who never approaches it again. It was the second and last sub-1:43 in Coe's long career.

I was wrong about you, clearly you're as much of a muppet as Ventolin.

It was an established meet~ Quarrie, Maina, Deleze all ran there the year before.

The record was ratified by the IAAF, so the track would have to have been measured and be legit. If it were short then why did World Number 2 in 1979, James Maina, only manage 1:49.7 when winning at the same meet in 1980?

There was a problem with timing but you get 1:41.5 using hand time stop watch, so it's clearly way under 1:42, and the timing issue wasn't Coe's fault.

The accusation he wasn't clean is just pathetic. Most tested athlete in the 80's and not a hint of a positive.

He approached his 1:41.7 with a 1000m WR that lasted longer than his 800, a few weeks later.

His 3rd (1:43.07) and 4th (1:43.38) fastest times were set in 2 of his worst seasons, 85 and 89. He never approached 1:41 after 81 because he was injured or ill the next 2 seasons, when he should have been at his best. If you can't see that he was capable of at least 1:42.5 when winning Olympic silver in 84 or in winning European gold in 86 (24.8 last 200 and running 10m further) then you know nothing of the event.

Snell never got within 1 sec of his pb after 62; Cruz never run faster than 1:43.9 after 85, when only 22; Fiasconaro never got within 2 secs of his 1:43.7 WR after. It doesn't mean they were on drugs. Sometimes fate stops you from achieving potential. They also didn't have professional rabbits running 49.5 every circuit race like they have done in the last decade or so. It was more important to win in those days.

Bad Wigins wrote:

[quote]Welsh Wizard wrote:

Look at the bleached pot holed old track Coe ran on in Florence. I'd say the top current fast mondo tracks like Monaco, Zurich, Rieti, etc would be at least 0.4 faster over 2 laps. Take away another 0.2-0.3 for running wide on the

3rd bend /quote]

And add at least 1 second for the short track and/or faulty timing system, and another second for if he were clean.

If it were anyone but Coe, this MB would jump all over an outlying 1:41.73 performed at relatively primitive facilities by an athlete who never approaches it again. It was the second and last sub-1:43 in Coe's long career.

Maybe I shouldn't be surpised that the Bad is the one who obviously was convinced by the b.s. which the oldman^3 has written regarding Firenze/Coe. But still I'm little bit surprised. But now I'm definitely prepared for everythiing which might come.

In normal circumstances and in discussions with people who at least seems to be interested in the reality, someone should ask where ever short track and faulty timing system are reasoned. But it's useless, since this person is not interested in the reality (he has proved this several times in the last weeks).

He even has adopted from the oldman that Coe hasn't broken 1:43 again after Firenze. Well, at least this is 100% correct (also, for sure, totally useless, since everybody who follows this just a little knows that Coe easily could have run some more in 81 if it were necessary in any way).

And that Coe isn't one of the "greats" in the 800m-history? Well, that's obvious, isn't it?

There is no point arguing with either Ventolin or Bad on this. They are totally stubborn with their delusions.

I used to think they were the same person, then I noticed them arguing, so thought better of it. Now I'm not so sure again. Scary thought.

He seemed to lose the winning edge after striking and killing a pedestrian with his car in 2008. The facts of the incident were not real clear since the newspaper article about it was written in Russian.

It comes down to talent. Nick Symmonds at 5'10 ran 1:42.95. Charles Jock at 6'3 is running 1:47's although his pr is 1:44.67 from 2011.

Welsh Wizard wrote:Not so sure its as minimal as you think

very minimal

Look at the bleached pot holed old track Coe ran on in Florence

that mickey-mouse size track which was probably 1m short on each curve

I'd say the top current fast mondo tracks like Monaco, Zurich, Rieti, etc would be at least 0.4 faster over 2 laps

nonsense

iaaf have limited track speed for decades

it's called 65% energy return maximum

Take away another 0.2-0.3 for running wide on the 3rd bend

drivel

it was no more than 0.2s

and Coe of 33 years ago is within a few tenths of the current WR

nonsense

coe had perfect pacing to bell offering ~ 0.4s advantage compared to Rudy's wr which was solo

And that's before looking at advances in training, physiology, psychology, injury recovery etc

& nowhere near the drug testing technology back then

utter drivel

he got perfect drafting from 200 - 400

nonense

his drafting stopped at ~ 410m

drivel

nijel spent so much of his race running wide, running ~ 8m extra, he hardly got any drafting after 200m

utter total drivel

he lost about 0.4s thru no drafting

that gets him to

~ 1'40-mid

on top of this, this was unrested, 3rd 800 in short period

in a circuit run, totally rested with ideal pacing to bell, that woud be more like

1'40-low

nonsense

iaaf have limited speed for decades

limiting meaning ole tracks may have exceeded current limit, otherwise no need for a limit

that mickey mouse size firenze track which was likely short by 1m on each curve as any ambitious guy turning up was virtually guaranteed a sb for year or even pb

drivel

more wide running reduced his drafting considerably

why does your peabrain not mention after rounds ???

fully rested on circuit & he couda expected

~ 1'41.5

nonsense

"drags" is NOT drafting

drivel

if he'd been in that race, he'd have run

~ 1'42.2/1'42.3

firenze run on 2m/lap short track worth ~ 1.42.0 for no swerve around billy + adding on 0.2/0.3s for fatigue of rounds

more rubbish

he is a kid who can sometimes exhibit his impressive smarts

you are an older kid with no smarts to exhibit at all

it was a low class unknown meet

every track fan when they heard he set the wr in firenze was saying

"where ???!!!"

quarrie was washed up winning bronze in a boycott games in a pathetic 20.29 when he had a 19.86pb

maina gave up in '80 when boycotted out of games

deleze was a nobody kid in '80 - 5y before peak of '85 when thrashing coe in 3'31.75

nonsense

iaaf was little more than a rubber stamp back then

all it did was ratify clockings/wind

it did not measure tracks & as long as timing/wind submitted back then it stamped them

fool

people still call rieti today a short track

utterly clueless

it's clear you were hardly born in ‘80

kenyans gave up in ’80 when no games to go to

maina/rono ran nothing worth bothering with in ‘80

maina who was a legit threat in ’80 & had won zurich ‘79/world cup

coe ducked him in ’79 world cup

as for firenze, soon as he ran it, ambitious guys turned up

aouita smashed his 3’37.3pb down to 3’32.5 !!!

then he ran incredible 13’04 in ’84 with no serious 5k to his name !!!

no adult fan expected better than 13’15

caballo after nothing since ’78 but low key 1’45+ on home track in ’83 turned up in firenze in ’84 & ran 1’44.8 !

sabia won race in 1’43.8 !!!

he never cracked 1’44.5 rest of career

firenze gave you superfast times as long as you made an effort

meaningless on a likely short track of 2m/lap

but his fault he couldn’t back up that run in 8 more “pure” 800s where he couldn’t even crack 1’45.4 !!!

great 800 guys run 1’40.9 or 1’42.6i solo

coe offered nothing in his 8 further 800s in ’81 to suggest firenze was legit

drivel

guy gets toxoplasmosis & claims he got it from “feral cats in rome” !!!

utter nonsense

he wasn’t a tramp sleeping alleys in ‘80s but in top class hotel

it’s a transfusion borne illness for many

nonsense

he spent so much time sick/injured he couldn’t be tested much in ‘82/’83/’85/’87/’88 !!!

primitive testing, infrequent tests

a toxoplasmosis +ve stinks to high heaven of blood transfusion

only a fool woud quote the 1k which is an essentially extinct event

1 circuit 1k this year

& hammered badly in his 1’43.07 by a cruz who was shadow of ’84 shape

no

it’s because his body broke down due to toxoplasmosis inducing enhancements

that runt body was never meant to break 1’43.5 as any adult back in ’79 knew

but a deluded kid hardly out of diapers in ‘79 woudn’t realise this

nonsense

try more like 1’43-flat in ’84 with lots of drafting

& huge amount of drafting in ‘86

fool

he didn’t have serious euro circuit to race in & peaked outside of majors for his domestic season at start of year

fool

he had 1 leg shorter than other

he was always destined to have about 1 or 2 good seasons before pelvic pain woud finish him

more rubbish

a hugely injury inflicted guy moving up from 400 to 800

he had 1 good 800 year

no

they were running wrong time of year/congenital leg problem/hugely injury prone

no toxoplasmosis there

nonsense

those guys had legit reasons for further fast/faster clockings

coe didn’t

utter drivel

it’s clear you were hardly born back then

every major euro circuit 800 expected a 50-flat opener from pacer

nonsense

from ’79 ->

it was a frenzy of chasing fast times/wrs with pacers for every major circuit race

coe/ovett/maree/scott/cruz/aouita/moorcroft

all chasing wrs at every continental meet

it is clear you were hardly born in that era

stop talking drivel to observers who were adults back then