"Running fast times as a teenager means you're noticed more than similar times as a twenty something".
How so?
An 18 year old running 3:28 will make more than an established runner with name recognition who runs 3:27?
Seems unlikely.
Seems more like you are just making things up to support your original statement.
If you look at how Kenyan and Ethiopian runners dominate middle and distance events, not just in times but by how many place in the top compared to Americans, this just isn't surprising. It would be like saying the number of HS basketball phenoms is higher in the US. There is a reason for it. Participation is huge. Genetics are favorable. Financial rewards are huge.
trollism wrote:
Slopenguinrunner wrote:Well, in that same generation as Ryun, you had Gerry Lindgren as one of the best 10k runners in the world while in high school. Prefontaine was also running in international meets just when he graduated from high school. You now have a bunch of American high school girls on the cusp of international level and their high school coaches aren't taking them to the well like Lindgren and Ryun did in the 60s.
Yeah. So you've taken a 60 year period and come up with about 6.
We see that many Kenyan age cheating 'teenagers' running crazy times in a single diamond league season.
While I,too, believe that some Kenyans lie about their age, it doesn't follow that all of them do. For example, in 93 there were plenty of people accusing Geb who won two WC medals just after turning 20 must have been lying about his age. Of course, without knowing his history, his times in his late 30s and (very) early 40s would lead the jaded observer to be lying about his age again - but in the other direction! Sometimes these guys are just that good.
The question of drugs is a different one. It sucks, but probably all of the top guys are on something - even if it's not technically illegal. Kwemoi is no different.
Is it any wonder wrote:
An 18 year old running 3:28 will make more than an established runner with name recognition who runs 3:27?
Yeah, he wasn't running 3:28 when he first age cheated though, was he?
It's these 3:28, 12:50 guys that make the whole thing laughable.
They choose this age in order to perhaps get noticed at a junior champs, but then some of them get a little bit too fast.
Is it really age cheating if they don't know how old they are? Is it their fault if they don't all know how old they are?
Age does make a difference. Remember little ol Mary Decker when she was 17...staying up with the USSR athletes?or how about when Noah Ngeny a youngster who challenged the great El G? Or how about when Kiprop raced in Osaka 07 WC or Beijing as youngest gold medalist. Age difference means more marketability.
Thank goodness you don't run a company, cause if you did you'd suck.
Mike Honcho wrote:
Age does make a difference. Remember little ol Mary Decker when she was 17...staying up with the USSR athletes?or how about when Noah Ngeny a youngster who challenged the great El G? Or how about when Kiprop raced in Osaka 07 WC or Beijing as youngest gold medalist. Age difference means more marketability.
Thank goodness you don't run a company, cause if you did you'd suck.
So you think Mary Cain is making more bank than Jenny Simpson?
Is it any wonder wrote:
So you think Mary Cain is making more bank than Jenny Simpson?
Are Mary Cain and Jenny Simpson currently equal in terms of ability and past achievements?
Mary Cain has only run 4.04 for 1500m but still she's a massive name? Is it because 4.04 is suddenly an incredible time or is it because she's very young?
A more pertinent question is whether Mary Cain is making more money than a 25 year old with a 4.04 PB?
trollism wrote:
Yeah. But we're seeing a new Kenyan 'teenager' each week, not each generation.
Blame it on the parents. U.S. parents get fat and lazy. They procreate and their kids have little, or no, motivation to become runners.
like, wow... wrote:
If you look at how Kenyan and Ethiopian runners dominate middle and distance events, not just in times but by how many place in the top compared to Americans, this just isn't surprising. It would be like saying the number of HS basketball phenoms is higher in the US. There is a reason for it. Participation is huge. Genetics are favorable. Financial rewards are huge.
At least someone gets it. Running is their national sport. They do not lose many to soccer, basketball, football, swimming,........
Imagine if every kid in the U.S. grew up wanting to be a track/running star, had favorable genetics, and had a financial motivation since it can pull them from a life of hardship. You don't think we might have some incredible 18-20 year olds? We have a few now and are only drawing from a very small demographic of athletes.
opinionated guy wrote:
At least someone gets it. Running is their national sport. They do not lose many to soccer, basketball, football, swimming,........
Imagine if every kid in the U.S. grew up wanting to be a track/running star, had favorable genetics, and had a financial motivation since it can pull them from a life of hardship. You don't think we might have some incredible 18-20 year olds? We have a few now and are only drawing from a very small demographic of athletes.
What about all the documented cases of age cheating then?
Age cheating happens in Kenya, it's been proven. This casts a shadow on all these 'teenagers' running crazy times. Do you know what, they're probably age cheating too.
A DuQ wrote:
trollism wrote:Yeah, the guess is always a few years too young rather than too old though isn't it?
Funny that.
Erring on the side of benefit rather than loss? Imagine that! Sounds like most of your tax returns, I'm sure.
Funny, that.
Indeed.
But wait, do you mean to imply that this is innocent behavior? I beg to differ.
Mike Honcho wrote:
In order to prove these records the IAAF should be begging for "legit" birth certificates. A scribbled up note from a village midwife is not legit.
Unfortunately, many of them don't have more "legit" birth certificates than that. If you want to prevent these issues, I suggest you donate enough money so that there can be a hospital a reasonable distance from every African village.
For now, there's no point in getting worked up over the ages of the African runners since nothing's going to change. I would imagine in most cases age cheating is not the runners' fault (don't Africans count their age differently from the rest of the world?).
Agree with you on HG. However, many Kenyans don't improve
their PBs after 18 (Sammy Kipketer off the top of my head. There are more...).
opinionated guy wrote:
like, wow... wrote:If you look at how Kenyan and Ethiopian runners dominate middle and distance events, not just in times but by how many place in the top compared to Americans, this just isn't surprising. It would be like saying the number of HS basketball phenoms is higher in the US. There is a reason for it. Participation is huge. Genetics are favorable. Financial rewards are huge.
At least someone gets it. Running is their national sport. They do not lose many to soccer, basketball, football, swimming,........
Imagine if every kid in the U.S. grew up wanting to be a track/running star, had favorable genetics, and had a financial motivation since it can pull them from a life of hardship. You don't think we might have some incredible 18-20 year olds? We have a few now and are only drawing from a very small demographic of athletes.
Those who are genetically gifted generally find out and are more likely to actually try to become athletes than those who are not genetically gifted. It's sort of a means of naturally selecting the best without having to have mass participation. Sure, a few might slip through the cracks, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly believable for 18 year olds to be the best in the world and run 3:28/12:50 times. I don't care who you are, 3:28 is only 2 seconds off the WR. Think about that... the WORLD RECORD. That means an 18 year old is running about as fast as anyone, of any age, in the history of the world. That's just not believable.
opinionated guy wrote:
like, wow... wrote:If you look at how Kenyan and Ethiopian runners dominate middle and distance events, not just in times but by how many place in the top compared to Americans, this just isn't surprising. It would be like saying the number of HS basketball phenoms is higher in the US. There is a reason for it. Participation is huge. Genetics are favorable. Financial rewards are huge.
At least someone gets it. Running is their national sport. They do not lose many to soccer, basketball, football, swimming,........
Imagine if every kid in the U.S. grew up wanting to be a track/running star, had favorable genetics, and had a financial motivation since it can pull them from a life of hardship. You don't think we might have some incredible 18-20 year olds? We have a few now and are only drawing from a very small demographic of athletes.
The problem is that so few U.S. kids have favorable genetics so the rest is irrelevant.
In the U.S. kids might race each other to the ice cream truck and within a hundred yards or so everyone is walking.
In Kenya someone could wave a trinket from a hilltop 20 miles away and two hours later 100 kids will be there.
Is it any wonder wrote:
trollism wrote:As for his age, 100% chance he's age cheating. He knows how old he is, and it's not 18. When they run this fast they make themselves look obvious and I bet they wish they were just honest.
Funny how on Letsrun.kkk a junior Kenyan will be lying about his age and understating it and, 20 plus years later, the same guy will be said to be overstating his age.
And of course will be doped up while white runners are not.
lol
0.00% chance this guy will be around in 20 years. I give him 5 years max.
Like Komen or Ngeny he'll "retire" or get busted for drugs at "23" (which in reality will be 30 or so).
A total hack who will steal places/records from legitimate juniors.
this article from 2013 says that he was "18" at the time too:
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/sports/2013/02/21/poland-bound-kwemoi-in-flight-from-poverty/
3:28 is 3:28.
Whining about something, age in this case, makes the U.S. kid who works his ass off yet is worlds behind, feel a little better about himself. "If I can't rise up I will tear others down".
He won't be better in 5 years.
He will be 23 next year.
He will not make it 20 years.
It goes on and on like the spoiled kid who has spent the past 5 years playing video games and can't come to grips with getting cut from the basketball team.
trollism wrote:
All hail wrote:These guys have no idea about their age. I think there was a thread a couple months back that said Ndiku had 2 separate birthdays.
Yeah, the guess is always a few years too young rather than too old though isn't it?
Funny that.
Given how long Bernard Lagat's career has lasted, I would assume he is an exception to this rule above.