DOWN GOES LAGAT... to Cam Levins over 5000m!!!

levins is back.

his 455 2km said so too.

only a handful of africans moe and rupp have levins talent.

infact levins might be better than rupp by talent.

he was training big mileage, has the best speed you could ask for, ran the olympics sick and kept up with the big boys for much of the races even so.

then hits the WALL. a college season plus a european season back to back, no matter how successful is insane. a 100% disaster statistic.

he might have actually started to use his head and backed off sufficiently to recover from the outrageous abuse.

strong enough he might be to take a second run at it.

if cam can get a few more good races in and continue to improve, it looks deep down, he's right.

guys like web, get exhausted deep down, and their "work ethic" "leaving no stone unturned" got them to the pinacle and over, way over.

Sciatica Road wrote:

You think Mutai was blowing smoke when he said he was tackling the WR at London this past spring? If he wasn't, then how could he have misjudged his fitness so badly, eh?

Unless he didn't misjudge his fitness, and just blew up going for the WR.

His first half was 1:02:31, you think he blew going for the WR?? Don't talk about things you clearly didn't watch.

So then what is your point? That you agree with him when he said G. Mutai was done? And implying that G. Mutai's training has over-cooked him, and has left not many years in the sport? Is your point that G. Mutai is now just talking a big game?Dennis Kimetto is in G. Mutai's camp. If you agree with the previous poster, then maybe that training won't amount much for Dennis Kimetto?

BrooklynRR wrote:

Sciatica Road wrote:

You think Mutai was blowing smoke when he said he was tackling the WR at London this past spring? If he wasn't, then how could he have misjudged his fitness so badly, eh?

Unless he didn't misjudge his fitness, and just blew up going for the WR.

His first half was 1:02:31, you think he blew going for the WR?? Don't talk about things you clearly didn't watch.

Mutai?????????? wrote:

Sciatica Road wrote:

This is the first time I'ver heard "Almost everyone was in agreement he wasn't going to last long."

It's true Levins was building a big mileage base, but at what pace were the mioles being run, and at what altitude? Would you say Geoffery Mutai should not last long in the sport because of his high mileage training?

Mutai ran what he last two thons? 2:08? I think most would agree he won't last much longer.

But I guess G. Mutai's winning the New York City Half in March (the half that NOP's Mo Farah was in) was indicative "that he won't last much longer"?

Sciatica Road wrote:

Mutai?????????? wrote:

Mutai ran what he last two thons? 2:08? I think most would agree he won't last much longer.

But I guess G. Mutai's winning the New York City Half in March (the half that NOP's Mo Farah was in) was indicative "that he won't last much longer"?

But I guess, these "most would agree", that after winning the most recent NYC Marathon in a pedestrian 2:08xx, it's indicative G. Mutai "won't last much longer", eh?

Even if Mutai were to retire today, to try and argue that his big mileage training program geared for multiple distances is a training program that "most would agree" is ineffective for substantial success in the sport, let alone longterm success, is silly.

Sciatica Road wrote:

Dennis Kimetto is in G. Mutai's camp. If you agree with the previous poster, then maybe that training won't amount much for Dennis Kimetto?

Dennis Kimetto (b. January 22, 1984), after casually training in Kenya while a subsistence farmer, joins the training camp of the 'self-coached' Geoffrey Mutai. Kimetto makes his marathon debut in Berlin in September 2012, finishing in 2:04:16, one second behind Mutai.

Sciatica Road wrote:

[quote]Sciatica Road wrote:

Dennis Kimetto is in G. Mutai's camp. If you agree with the previous poster, then maybe that training won't amount much for Dennis Kimetto?

Dennis Kimetto (b. January 22, 1984), after casually training in Kenya while a subsistence farmer, joins the training camp of the 'self-coached' Geoffrey Mutai. Kimetto makes his marathon debut in Berlin in September 2012, finishing in 2:04:16, one second behind Mutai.[/quote

Kimetto then proceeds the following year to smash the Chicago Marathon course record. (Note, Kimetto's 10000m personal best is a 'pedestrian' 28:30.0, set in 2011.)

Sciatica Road wrote:

Mutai?????????? wrote:

Mutai ran what he last two thons? 2:08? I think most would agree he won't last much longer.

>

>

(Note, G. Mutai's training program has a lot of 8 minute miles, albeit, run at altitude where he was born and raised.)

---------------------

Surprisingly, Geoffrey is self-coached. “I have a training program that is unique and caters for many distances,” he says. “That is why I prefer to train on my own without any coach since it is easier for me to adjust for the race I’m running next.”

...

When the outstanding athlete is training for a marathon with his compatriots, he is logging incredible mileage. Manager Gerard van de Veen says Geoffrey runs up to 240 kilometers (149 miles) a week.

http://www.takethemagicstep.com/geoffrey-mutai-the-fastest-marathon-runner-in-the-world/

---------------------

---------------------

Geoffrey Mutai is regarded as the fastest marathon runner in history. Not only has he won the New York City marathon twice and set a new course record in 2011, but he also won the Boston Marathon last April with an unofficial world record time of 2:03:02.

...

Surprisingly, Mutai is a self-coached runner, which is quite astonishing for someone with his long list of accomplishments. He uses a flexible training program that can be applied to many different distances. Using his self-named ‘bread and butter’ training program, Mutai covers on an average 128 miles per week. Here is an example of Mutai’s training regimen:...

http://www.loomischaffee.org/page.cfm?p=872&newsid=4769

---------------------

(Note, G. Mutai's training program has a lot of 8 minute miles, albeit, run at altitude where he was born and raised.)

Geoffrey Mutai's Bread and Butter Training Program

Monday

A.M. 2 HR easy run (6:30-8 min./mile)

P.M. 1 HR. easy run (6:30-8 min./mile)

Tuesday

A.M. 50 min. run (8 min. miles)

P.M. Speed Workout:

30 min. warm-up

12x1km intervals (4:50/mile pace) w 1 min. rec.

Wednesday

A.M. 1Hr 50min. run (8min. miles)

P.M. 2 HR easy run (8min. miles)

Thursday

A.M. 25 mile run (7:15 min. miles speeding up to 5:35 min. miles)

Friday

A.M. 1Hr 50min. run (8min. miles)

P.M. 2 HR easy run (8min. miles)

Saturday

A.M. Speed Workout:

30 min. warm-up

20x2min. intervals @ 5 min. mile with 1 min. rec.

30 min. cooldown

Sunday

Rest

http://www.loomischaffee.org/page.cfm?p=872&newsid=4769

Edit: meant to say Kimetto joined Mutai's training camp in 2010.

Sciatica Road wrote:

Dennis Kimetto (b. January 22, 1984), after casually training in Kenya while a subsistence farmer, joins the training camp of the 'self-coached' Geoffrey Mutai. Kimetto makes his marathon debut in Berlin in September 2012, finishing in 2:04:16, one second behind Mutai.

Kimetto then proceeds the following year to smash the Chicago Marathon course record. (Note, Kimetto's 10000m personal best is a 'pedestrian' 28:30.0, set in 2011.)

BrooklynRR wrote:

Sciatica Road wrote:

You think Mutai was blowing smoke when he said he was tackling the WR at London this past spring? If he wasn't, then how could he have misjudged his fitness so badly, eh?

Unless he didn't misjudge his fitness, and just blew up going for the WR.

His first half was 1:02:31, you think he blew going for the WR?? Don't talk about things you clearly didn't watch.

Right duuuuuude, here is a replay:

"At the halfway point of the men's elite race, Wilson Kipsang is at the head of the leading pack, along with Geoffrey Mutai and Tsegaye Kebede, among others. They reached that point at 1:02:30, which is about 15 seconds ahead of course record pace."

Sciatica Road wrote:

BrooklynRR wrote:

His first half was 1:02:31, you think he blew going for the WR?? Don't talk about things you clearly didn't watch.

Right duuuuuude, here is a replay:

"At the halfway point of the men's elite race, Wilson Kipsang is at the head of the leading pack, along with Geoffrey Mutai and Tsegaye Kebede, among others. They reached that point at 1:02:30, which is about 15 seconds ahead of course record pace."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/apr/13/follow-the-london-marathon-live-nick-miller

Dumb POTD goes to you! For not knowing a course record is different than a WR! What you think 1:02:31 pace was going out at WR pace?? On a drop a 1:00:30 second half?? Where does Letsrun find these people??

Point isn't that big mileage can't make you great, it's that when you make that huge jump it's hard to maintain or improve upon. Levins and Mutai are just on different levels but same principle. Levins went big and made huge gains. Doesn't mean it didn't make him great, just means it wouldn't last much longer. Levins took a step back at NOP and is now aiming for the longrun...no reverse pun intended.

Lots of great North Americans have gone through this when they went big miles. Big improvement then no where to go. Not saying it's wrong, it's just a different approach that can bring quick results but then also flatten you.

Leading up to the race, Mutai did talk about going for the WR. Optimal conditions have to coalesce to get a WR; pacing is just one of them. Because Mutai fell short in London last year was not indicative that (a) he's done (he later won the NYC marathon, and the NYC Half this past spring, nor that (b) he was just talking a big game beforehand, not planning to go for it; maybe he was feeling off that morning and instead decided to at least win the race (leading at the half) before he did blow-up (faded big time) in the second half due to physically being off that day.

Interesting that Kimetto is talking about going for the WR in Berlin:

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/world-record-assault-planned-at-berlin-marathon

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/dennis-kimetto-will-chase-world-marathon-record-in-berlin

He totally owned him - took him down like a bitch. MF levins is the boss

Kettle > Pot wrote:

Interesting that Kimetto is talking about going for the WR in Berlin:

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/world-record-assault-planned-at-berlin-marathonhttp://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/dennis-kimetto-will-chase-world-marathon-record-in-berlin

The $500,000 WMM purse is on the line; winning the race will likely take precedence over chasing the WR, regardless of pre-race chatter.

DumbPOTD wrote:

Point isn't that big mileage can't make you great, it's that when you make that huge jump it's hard to maintain or improve upon. Levins and Mutai are just on different levels but same principle. Levins went big and made huge gains. Doesn't mean it didn't make him great, just means it wouldn't last much longer. Levins took a step back at NOP and is now aiming for the longrun...no reverse pun intended.

Lots of great North Americans have gone through this when they went big miles. Big improvement then no where to go. Not saying it's wrong, it's just a different approach that can bring quick results but then also flatten you.

We don't know how many miles a week Kimetto was running before he joined Mutai's camp. Rather than making "big improvement's" with no where to go, Mutai's many years of success indicates that year's and year's of big mileage, building upon each other, can lead to sustained success over several years.

Kettle > Pot wrote:

Leading up to the race, Mutai did talk about going for the WR. Optimal conditions have to coalesce to get a WR; pacing is just one of them. Because Mutai fell short in London last year was not indicative that (a) he's done (he later won the NYC marathon, and the NYC Half this past spring, nor that (b) he was just talking a big game beforehand, not planning to go for it; maybe he was feeling off that morning and instead decided to at least win the race (leading at the half) before he did blow-up (faded big time) in the second half due to physically being off that day.

Interesting that Kimetto is talking about going for the WR in Berlin:

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/world-record-assault-planned-at-berlin-marathonhttp://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/dennis-kimetto-will-chase-world-marathon-record-in-berlin

That has nothing to do however with the above poster making a dumb post. Whether he talked about it has nothing to do with whether he went for it and bombed. When this was pointed out the same poster tried to prove he was right by quoting that he was ahead of the course record....which again has nothing to do with going for the WR. Whether he's done im not arguing for or against. Just pointing out that said poster doesn't know that a CR isn't a world record..,