You know what? Who cares that Shalane looks really old or just a little old and might or might not break 2:20? Even if she does 2:20, she'll still be a mile behind doper paula. All we care about is that she fvcks shit up!
You know what? Who cares that Shalane looks really old or just a little old and might or might not break 2:20? Even if she does 2:20, she'll still be a mile behind doper paula. All we care about is that she fvcks shit up!
Aaah. The old "Boston is the fastest marathon in the world" argument raises its ugly head.
Just to be accurate, the marathon was seven days after the 10,000 final, not five. But to add to Shorter's achievement we should note that there were heats of the 10,000 three days before the final, and Shorter broke the American record in the heats first--so he broke the AR twice in the same Olympics and then won the marathon.
fixed wrote:
fan of the sport wrote:Frank Shorter ran the 10k in 72 Olympics about a week before the marathon.
Frank Shorter placed 5th in an AR of 27:51.0 (which was a top-10 all-time performance and performer), 5 days before winning gold in the Munich Olympic marathon.
Let's be real for a second. If the decision was made last minute, she would have sacrificed a negligible amount of marathon build training. Does anyone seriously believe that she was doing 10k work all summer and Jerry had an epiphany immediately before nationals that she needed to go to altitude?
What this says is that she wasn't ready for a fast 10k and couldn't just say that. I hate to paint in broad strokes, but Jerry's athletes frequently have lame excuses for missed races, giving me the impression that they're coddled and mentally unstable. Say what you want about AlSal, but at least with his group, we usually hear believable explanations of their plans, goals, results and (sometimes) setbacks. I hope Shalane sets the AR in Fall, but that interview came across as incredibly flakey.
Also to be accurate, 6 miles was the common distance run in the USA back then rather than 10K
Good to have confirmation that it is Schumacher who tries to keep his athletes from competing prior to their goal races. But it is absurd to say that running a 10k in June would have any negative effect on a marathon in late September or in October or November. It would only be a good thing to get in a pretty hard effort--and a hard tempo would really be all that was even necessary for her to win 10k nationals this year--at the cost of just several lighter days. Back up to altitude after that and no harm. In fact, she could have still taken two weeks off after the 10k (totally unnecessary) and started a 13+ week training program for the fall marathon and been in absolute tip-top shape for it. Jerry's full of it. I don't blame Shalane at all for this decision, because she is a competitor with bronze at World XC and the Olympics, as well as four national outdoor track titles (I would have thought it would be more), dating to 2005.
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
she is a competitor with bronze at World XC and the Olympics, as well as four national outdoor track titles (I would have thought it would be more), dating to 2005.
I think she has five, but your point still stands:
2005 - 5000
2007 - 5000
2008 - 10000
2011 - 10000
2013 - 10000
Yes, and Shorter's training was complete before he turned in this wonderful set of performances.
I definitely side with German F. here over J.R.
Flanagan ran 2:22:02 in Boston, going out hard and leading a ton. With rabbits on a flat course and good weather, it's reasonable for her to shoot for sub-2:20. I'm not saying she'll definitely do it; obviously it will be incredibly hard. But it's a logical goal.
As far as her skipping USAs, I wasn't happy with all the athletes that did that. If she does Berlin though (rather than Chicago) I can understand, even if I'm still not happy about it.
The 10K at USAs was what, basically 12 weeks before Berlin? And USAs isn't a joke where she can just come in and jog or do it as a workout. She's still got to be sharp to make sure she beats Conley and Hasay and I don't remember the timeline for declarations, but maybe she thought she could have to face Huddle too which woudl take an all-out race. She'd still have to do some tapering for that and there could be a week+ of recovery afterward so you're cutting into marathon training time there and 12-weeks is probably the least you want to have.
If she was doing NYC I'd call bullshit, but Berlin (and to a lesser extent Chicago) is more understandable.
Besides, she's pretty much always there, even when she was already going for the marathon in 2012, so you can give her a pass this time.
Amazing that Rupp gets savaged for JUST running the 10,000m at nationals and winning easily with kids on the way.
Meanwhile people are defending Jerry's view that his global 10,000m medalist skip USATFs for a marathon in 3 months.
My neighbor knows shorter wrote:
Yes, and Shorter's training was complete before he turned in this wonderful set of performances.
This is the point I was going to make.
Shorter's training was to be fit for the time period in general, whether it be racing 10,000 or or marathon.
But honestly, no one does that anymore as the competition is much deeper all around.
The fact is, she would either have to alter her training schedule or race without any track prep.
You can't go into a track championship with zero track workouts.
And you wouldn't be doing track works right now preparing for a fall marathon.
Yes, you can do it.
We saw Ritz run the 10,000 at the Trials and the Olympics in 2012 and run a fall marathon for a PR in 2012.
But participating in the Olympics was the motivating factor for the 10,000m track races.
It's an individual sport and individuals will do different things.
This is more of a Jerry thing than Shalene not wanting to run. Going back to his Wisconsin days, Schumacher has been a consistent advocate of infrequent racing.
Quick question and I guess I should look this up: Didn't Viren in one Olympics win 5K/10K and then place 5th in the marathon?
Wondering in the West wrote:
Quick question and I guess I should look this up: Didn't Viren in one Olympics win 5K/10K and then place 5th in the marathon?
Yes, that was in 1976. Viren ran 2:13 for the marathon.
And he was a big time blood doper too.
Wondering in the West wrote:
Quick question and I guess I should look this up: Didn't Viren in one Olympics win 5K/10K and then place 5th in the marathon?
It's amazing what you can do in distance events when most of Africa boycotts.
Still a very impressive triple for Viren.
Two rounds of 10,000m (28:14, 27:40 Gold), two rounds of 5,000m (13:33, 13:24 Gold) and then the marathon the morning after the 5,000 final (2:13 5th).
fan of the sport wrote:
Frank Shorter ran the 10k in 72 Olympics about a week before the marathon.
Uhh maybe because that's how the Olympic schedule is...
Salazar said he was thinking about making Farah do the 10k/Marathon double in Rio 16, cause he thought it was his best chance at a double (even though it's not), and we're talking about Mo Farah
an inconvenient truth wrote:
She's run a lot faster than you ever have, or will. In fact, she beats your PRs several times a week during training runs.
And this makes her immune to commentary and criticism, right? Maybe we should start kissing her feet and coming to her for legal, financial and medical advice? Oh, those poor, good Christian darling elite runners, always do-good-ers, against the nasty naysayers on some internet forum! Incredible, the hypocrisy, when our distance running culture full of selfish runners features idiots in the public spotlight who can't handle a single tweet of criticism. I have no sympathy for their greedy butts
Lol, yes sub 2.20 is absolutely on the cards, on a flat course.
dkny64 wrote:
From a recent interview:
Any regrets missing the U.S. Championships last month?
Yeah. It’s hard not being part of track nationals. My pulling out [of the 10,000m] was something of a last-minute decision. I trained for it and was excited to do it, but when Jerry and I made the decision to run a fall marathon, Jerry said that I needed to go out to altitude. I had already put a week in prior to that race [U.S. Track and Field Championships]. He just asked me, “What are your main goals for this year?” and I told him my main goal was to break 2:20, so he said, “then that comes at a cost of not doing USAs then.” I listen to Jerry. I fight certain battles, but for this one if my goal is a sub-2:20 marathon then that race was a casualty of it. It’s tough to watch other people compete. I was ready for it and I was excited to compete. It’s definitely something I don’t like to do, but he just felt like it was the right decision for my big goal.
full interview is at
http://running.competitor.com/2014/07/news/looking-go-fast-fall-interview-shalane-flanagan_107840#7wYdMM4EGUpZcJPX.99
Jerry and Shalane certainly know what's best far better than I do and I don't have any more of an issue with Shalane skipping nationals than I do with anyone. I think athletes should make their nation's championship a priority, but missing it once for an athlete like Shalane who has done it many times is perhaps not too big of a deal. However, with that said, I cannot comprehend how training for and running one 10K in June is going to affect a marathon in the fall. At most, it would mean coming down from altitude maybe a half dozen times and getting in some track intervals in place of a couple of long runs. As soon as the 10K is over, you have about 4 months to get back to your marathon specific training. In my mind, the thing U.S. marathoners struggle with the most is the change of pace and some 10K training provides stimulas for that.
I am not saying this is the case with Shalane, but I wish athletes would call it what it is, a top-3 finish in a WMM is a lot of money to pass up. Weather it is a marathon or a European track race, skipping nationals 9 times out of 10 is about money.
J.R. wrote:
Running a pace on a downhill course with a wind behind her back does not indicate she's going to run faster on the flat, but slower.
And yet she still will, and you'll still be the dumbest twat on this message board.