Marta Lualdi wrote:
So why is Centro using this 800 as a "tune up" when other 1500 meter runners go out there and rip some legit 800 meter times? Sounds like a preemptive excuse for the inevitable bad performance.
Well just like Asbel Kiprop used the Paris 800m as tune up for Monaco where he wants to try and break the WR. That's what athletes do! They run off course as fast as they can - BUT it is not their best distance that's why it is tune up for their best distance.
Star wrote:
So why was Jenny Simpson able to run and win USATF and then go overseas and nearly break the American Record?
And how was Centro himself able to run his current PR about 3 weeks after the rounds of the Olympics?
There's is no way that running USATF would have a negative race on the upcoming Monaco race.
I absolutely hate this logic. Most runners I have met suffer from this line of thinking. Just because something "worked" does not mean it was the best possible outcome. You can always do better.
People will say a coaches training "works" for them (meaning they are happy with the achievements reaped from the training), when in reality runners should always be thinking "what works better?".
So just because Jenny ran a stellar PR/PB does NOT mean running at USATFs was in her best interest. As another poster clearly pointed out, maybe she would have ran faster in Paris having skipped USATFs.
She dropped a second off her pr after practicing more front running and getting strength from rounds. Salazar may not have wanted him to lose valuable training time. Centro should run several 8s to get his time down so that he'll be more ready for Monaco. Kiprop knows that if you are sharp at 800, the very fast opening 1500m pace will not seem nearly as bad. Too bad it does not seem like Wheating will be running Monaco this year. But this should be Centro's best shot at breaking 3:30 with Kiprop going after 3:26 and many athletes following behind trying to run 3:28-29.
ventolin^3 wrote:
oopz wrote:Ventolin, I don't believe I've seen you use your calculator on Centro beforei just use an available calculator
no real 400 or 800 or 3k to go on
iirc, he shouda gone well below 3'30 that day based on extra distance run & uneven pace
He ran a 13:20 5k earlier this year, why not go with that?
-Jenny ran her PR a week after USATF
-Centro ran his PR within a few weeks after the Olympics.
-El G ran the second fastest time in history 12 days after winning a World Championship
-Lagat's 3:26 PR also 12 days after those championships.
-Fermin Cacho's lifetime PR is one week after a World Championship
- Mehdi Baala's lifetime PR is one week after a World Championship
- Venuste Nyongabo's lifetime PR is a couple weeks after a World Championship
- Morceli's first WR record was a month after the Olympics
So Jenny's performance is not an outlier.
There is very solid evidence that running a championship event does not diminish your chances of running your best possible time shortly there after.
I have to differ. It's good to follow things that "work".
Le Foot wrote:
ventolin^3 wrote:i just use an available calculator
no real 400 or 800 or 3k to go on
iirc, he shouda gone well below 3'30 that day based on extra distance run & uneven pace
He ran a 13:20 5k earlier this year, why not go with that?
Yes, and a 5k which he was happy with...not something like "I think I'm in 13:XX shape but it didn't show". So I'd assume its a good fit. Honestly though, I think Centro could bust out a better 3k than his 1500/5k times would predict. My guess would be his 3k would be pretty equivalent in performance to his 1500. I would guess he simply drops off a lot between 3k and 5k.
Also ventolin, your calculator is "available" but not free.
Star wrote:
-Jenny ran her PR a week after USATF
-Centro ran his PR within a few weeks after the Olympics.
-El G ran the second fastest time in history 12 days after winning a World Championship
-Lagat's 3:26 PR also 12 days after those championships.
-Fermin Cacho's lifetime PR is one week after a World Championship
- Mehdi Baala's lifetime PR is one week after a World Championship
- Venuste Nyongabo's lifetime PR is a couple weeks after a World Championship
- Morceli's first WR record was a month after the Olympics
So Jenny's performance is not an outlier.
There is very solid evidence that running a championship event does not diminish your chances of running your best possible time shortly there after.
I have to differ. It's good to follow things that "work".
So pretty much you're saying that all of these runners (minus Jenny) ran a PR after a race they PEAKED and TAPERED for? The difference between Jenny and every other person is that they ran these times in a championship year...so they put all their eggs in one basket (the championship race) and then continued to race after (and they were still in good form/fitness when they PRed...but who is to say they wouldn't have ran faster on the championship day in a rabbited time trial?).
With respect to your second post, I agree it is good follow what "works". However, I believe in adding new elements and making slight changes as you figure out what "works" better for you, and to add new stimuli. I'm not advocating some Ryan Hall-esque shit where you try radically new training all the time.
jjjjjjjjj wrote:Kiprop knows that if you are sharp at 800, the very fast opening 1500m pace will not seem nearly as bad
no
an 800 tune-up makes no difference
last year, asbel ran a pathetic 1'45.54 tune-up
it made no difference to 1500 as he later ran 3'27.7 off a stoopid ~ 53.3 start
believe you me, he wasn't in 1'45.54 shape in monaco
ventolin^3 wrote:
jjjjjjjjj wrote:Kiprop knows that if you are sharp at 800, the very fast opening 1500m pace will not seem nearly as badno
an 800 tune-up makes no difference
last year, asbel ran a pathetic 1'45.54 tune-up
it made no difference to 1500 as he later ran 3'27.7 off a stoopid ~ 53.3 start
believe you me, he wasn't in 1'45.54 shape in monaco
Personally I prefer racing under-distance the week before a target race, it makes the pace feel really comfortable and slow in the longer race.
oopz wrote:Personally I prefer racing under-distance the week before a target race, it makes the pace feel really comfortable and slow in the longer race.
Agreed.
He can do it wrote:
Star wrote:Exactly what I was thinking.
Tune up race. I wouldn't read too much into it.
Incidentally, USATF would have been a good tune up for the Lausanne race he just ran.
But Monaco is the place where you can run really fast. So I don't blame him that his focus is on that meet and not Lausanne. For him to do well in Monaco (and I mean AR well) he had to miss the USATF Champs (in my opinion).
Had to bump this thread.
Manzano (who ran and won USATF) over Centro (skipped USATF) in 3:30.98 in Monaco.
Don't know if it proves anything but it certainly disproves that running USATF is detrimental to fast times.