Sub 15 5k, post grad training

Axc wrote:

5 mile tempo: 28:00

(5:45, 5:46, 5:27, 5:31, 5:28)

nice tempo, looks like you should start faster next time. hard to say if you're in sub 15 shape, i'd guess not yet. you should definitely be able to run 800s at 5k pace, so that suggests you may be in as fast as 15:20 shape. i'm about a 15:20s guy and those 800s would be easy, as would the tempo. i do tempos at 5:30 pace, if totally flat as fast as 5:25s.

keep on rolling man

reed we all know you are not a 15:20s guy. You ran 15:31 in a perfect race last week, and you wrote that huge boring-ass race report. Remember when you used to post on runnersworld forums? I think you should go back.

Ditch the 800's. There are more productive workouts for your money. Consider putting your 5 mi. tempo in the middle of long run. Something like this: 12 mi. 1st mi.@ 7:30 2nd/ 3rd mi.@ 6:30 mi. 5 mi. @ 5:45 to 5:55 9 and 10 @ 6:30 finish out run @ 7:30. Bring down pace for the 5 miles as you become more fit.

I know lots of people hate the treadmill, but you can build stamina/strength to hold faster 5k paces. Start @ 2% @ 7:30 for 2 mi. then go 2 mi. @ 6:00 to 6:15 pace @ 2% for 2 min. 3% for 2 min. 4% for 2 min. repeat for next mile. Finish 2 mi. @ 7:30 @ 0%.

I run thist on training on the road. What can I expect from 5 k on track? 15:25 ?

reed's a stupid name anyways wrote:

reed we all know you are not a 15:20s guy. You ran 15:31 in a perfect race last week, and you wrote that huge boring-ass race report. Remember when you used to post on runnersworld forums? I think you should go back.

alright due chill, if you're not here to positively contribute then GTFO

and don't read my boring-ass RRs if you don't want to.

Refreshing to see so many people in the same boat. 5 years later I think I am ready to make a go at my College PRs.

PRs

800-2:00

Mile-4:26

1500-4:04

3000-8:47

5k-15:16

10k-32:05

I want to get back to running track workouts and make a go at some of these PRs. I normally train for at least one marathon a year as motivation to keep running. If I can time it right and get some solid track training in I think I can PR in something next year. Running community has grown where I live now so I think this will help keep me motivated year round. I now live in Texas and have more opportunity to run track meets and faster road races. Good luck to those going after it. Might see some of you out at some of the summer track meets in the DFW area.

AXC wrote:

5 mile tempo today: 28:16. Felt great

splits: 5:39, 5:47, 5:37, 5:38, 5:33

80 minute long run tomorrow

Week so far:

Monday: 60 min easy

Tuesday: Hill Repeats (2 sets of 4, 60 second long hill)

Wednesday: 45 min easy

Great thread, thanks for keeping it going. I'm in the same boat, late 20's, hoping for a sub 15 in the next few years. My PR's are much slower though, high 15's for 5k and 9:40's for 3200 from when I was in my teens. Had to respond to this comment because my 5 mile tempo in 28:15 earlier this week nearly matches yours (switch mile 1 and 2 splits though, plus mine was on the track).

Figure I need to get back to sub 16 before I can even think of going sub 15, so my training has been focused on doing that, and like you I'm having a tough time finding competitive 5k's on the track. Interesting that you seem to be low 15 shape while I'm probably 16 flat, and our tempos are similar. That I've not been doing enough hills and/or 3k -pace work is likely part of the problem.

Question for you, ever do ladders or 1000, 1500, 2000 m repeats? I feel it's easy to develop the habit of pushing pace only in the last 100 of 400's and 800's to reach time goals rather than getting used to how 5k pace feels throughout. Maybe that's just me.

You definitely aren't there yet, and barring some kind of magic, would be hard pressed by May.

It's been mentioned, but you should start into longer intervals. Maybe not even the 2k as mentioned directly above me, but certainly 1ks and probably miles, if only as the top end of a ladder. Just as the previous poster said, you need to get used to running that hard pace for 15 minutes, and you body has to be able to sustain it as well. At this point you look like you're doing some early Jack Daniels speed stuff? I always found that the transition to the I-pace intervals in his program doesn't yield me good results until 6-8 weeks. Even then it depends on what I did prior.

What was your HR on faster portions of this workout? Without knowing your training, I would say 15:25 or a little faster is right.

for what it's worth wrote:

What was your HR on faster portions of this workout? Without knowing your training, I would say 15:25 or a little faster is right.

Honestly I've never tracked my heart rate once in my life while running.

I hear what everyone is saying in regards to longer intervals and it makes sense.

This weeks plan is hill repeats tomorrow, pickups on thursday

4 mile race saturday

Then next week.

5-6x1k @3:05 on a six minute cycle.

Throughout the summer down in Houston they have open summer track meets at Rice, might be a bit of a drive, but Rice's track is still new and I heard its pretty fast. I believe they are held on weekends in the evenings. I'm kinda in a similar situation and would have to drive about 2 hours there. Would be nice to break 16 by the end of this summer and have some faster runners to chase.

Can I ask where the recovery interval comes from in your workouts? I think you said it was on 5 minute cycle for the 800s (that seems like a lot of rest) and now you will have almost equal rest for the 1000s as well? Do you stand? Jog recovery?

I don't know if anyone reading this thread remembers Canova's posts last summer about Ndiku's workouts where he would have standing rest for faster intervals with the intention of getting as much speed as possible, and then jog recovery might come in a workout more like this 5-6x1k to continue wearing down the muscles or something?

I guess I am just bringing this up because I don't see the benefit of 5-6 1000s with almost 1:1 rest. My thought would be 400 jog or 1 minute standing, but that doesn't mean anything more than that's what I believe. I'm interested in your perspective.

Jack Daniels suggests the following for recovery:

- 1 minute of recovery for every mile run at T pace (in cruise intervals, for example)

- 1 minute of recovery for every minute run at I pace (like in a 5-6 x1000 @ 5k pace workout as described above)

- Equal distance recovery for R pace (400 jog recovery for 12x400, for example)

I've always found each of those to be pretty reasonable guidelines, though they are obviously just that, guidelines.

keeping it 75 wrote:

I guess I am just bringing this up because I don't see the benefit of 5-6 1000s with almost 1:1 rest. My thought would be 400 jog or 1 minute standing, but that doesn't mean anything more than that's what I believe. I'm interested in your perspective.

I don't see what your saying there. a 400 jog usually takes about 2 min plus, and your saying that is equivalent to 1 min standing rest??

The workout came from my college coach, I wouldn't be surprised if he was using Jack Daniels guidelines for rest.

And for the record a 5 min cycle means five minutes between starting each interval. So for my 800's it was about 2:30 rest aka a 1:1 rest recovery ratio.

Yea, you guys are both correct. That Daniels list was exactly what I was thinking. I don't know why I felt like equal rest for 800's close to I pace was a lot. My bad.

What I meant with the 400 jog vs 1 minute standing was that jogging recovery is obviously still working the muscles so you could (in theory, based on nothing) take more.

Again referencing the Canova discussion from last summer, it seemed he would have Ndiku take less time rest when it was standing (possibly also due to increasing lactic acid levels from not jogging-I always found a long standing rest to make the workout FEEL worse) and longer when jogging. Again, I have no intelligent reasoning to this, it was just something I remember reading. You seem like you know what you're doing, keep it up. :)

Right, I'm sure those are his actual PR's. Not just some random numbers he pulled out of his ass to impress strangers on the internet.

I like this thread. Super relevant to me right now as well.

My PRs:

mile: 4:28 (Dec 2010)

5000i: 15:19 (Dec 2013)

half-marathon: 1:11:30 (April 2014)

I ran 1:12 flat this winter and am looking to race the one 10,000 and one-two 5,000s in late may and early june.

I'd love to break 15:00 for the 5 and i guess 32:00 in 10. I've never raced a 10,000 on the track so I'm not sure where to start.

My mileage averaged real close to 60 flat for a month or two in the winter. My workout schedule was roughly:

* Long run 13-15 miles

* Tempo/Cruise intervals (1600m-5000m) in length at half marathon pace-ish (5:30 down to 5:20) with 60 seconds/mile of recovery usually

* hill strides or 200s

* Every couple weeks a longer tempo/or progression run with 6-8 miles of faster running.

I've bumped up my mileage now to 70-75 ish and will try to hold that until I'm racing. My schedule is roughly the same now, except for the Tempo/Cruise intervals. My question is what changes should I make to that workout? I assume i'll keep the long run, the strides and hills the same.

The past two weeks I've done repeats at closer to 10k pace with slightly longer rest (approx 2-3 minutes). Is this what I should be doing? My aprproach/reasoning is pretty simple, which is simply to switch from half marathon specific pacing to 10k specific pacing. The plan would be to gradually increase the length of the interval, say up from 1000s to eventually 2000s at 10k pace.

I'd love any advice on what to do with my workout day. I think I'll keep the progression run, strides, and long run the same.

To me it seems like your training could use some faster interval workouts.

Here are some workouts I've done in the past month

6x800 on a 5 minute cycle

These two are more mile 3 k workouts but I like them:

6x400 with a 400m jog break

2 sets 800,400,400

I come from a middle distance background and when I ran 8:37 and 15:14 I was primarily training to run the mile/1500.

AXC wrote:

To me it seems like your training could use some faster interval workouts.

Here are some workouts I've done in the past month

6x800 on a 5 minute cycle

These two are more mile 3 k workouts but I like them:

6x400 with a 400m jog break

2 sets 800,400,400

I come from a middle distance background and when I ran 8:37 and 15:14 I was primarily training to run the mile/1500.

Thanks!

Do you do this I-pace type work year round? Or the 4 - 6 weeks leading up to races? Or something in between like for several months leading up?

I've definitely been lacking faster intervals in my regime and have been trying to decide when to add them.