Unfair DQ in NCAA East 5k - Va. Tech 5th year senior gets DQd with zero contact!

Looks like he was with the leaders in the 10K at 5200m and then split a 2:21 400m to fall way back, then just cruised to 8400m. Did he actually stop because of an injury and then try to continue?

more to it? wrote:

Looks like he was with the leaders in the 10K at 5200m and then split a 2:21 400m to fall way back, then just cruised to 8400m. Did he actually stop because of an injury and then try to continue?

That can't be right. there was probably just a split missed by a transponder or something. Hard to believe that someone would either run a lap at almost 10 minute pace then start clipping off 70s again, or stop for a full minute on a lap then, go back to running 70 second laps.

This is very upsetting to learn that Leoule earned a trip to the NCAAs and to have it taken from him by a over zealous coach. The Havard athlete can't feel good about his undeserved trip to the NCAA. As a coach in any sport there is a gray area in the rule books that you don't cross into unless you want to lose the respect of your fellow coaches, (example:Spygate and Bill Belichick) I believe that the Harvard coach crossed unto the gray area of coaching.

Bring Back the 880 wrote:

more to it? wrote:

Looks like he was with the leaders in the 10K at 5200m and then split a 2:21 400m to fall way back, then just cruised to 8400m. Did he actually stop because of an injury and then try to continue?

That can't be right. there was probably just a split missed by a transponder or something. Hard to believe that someone would either run a lap at almost 10 minute pace then start clipping off 70s again, or stop for a full minute on a lap then, go back to running 70 second laps.

Yeah I remember looking at the 10k splits and noticing that kind of pattern with a bunch of the middle to back-of-the-pack athletes. I'm sure its actually an 800m split

If you DNF in your first event you should absolutely be DQ'ed from the rest of the meet, regardless of medical reasons. What prevents a runner from running 8k of a 10k, realizing he isn't going to make it, then faking an injury and DNFing - thus preserving himself for the 5k. (Not saying he did this, just a reason for the rule to be put in place.) When you declare for two events at regionals, that's just the risk you take. The right decision was made in the end, but the officials messed up even letting him start. Completely fair.

thisguy wrote:

If you DNF in your first event you should absolutely be DQ'ed from the rest of the meet, regardless of medical reasons. What prevents a runner from running 8k of a 10k, realizing he isn't going to make it, then faking an injury and DNFing - thus preserving himself for the 5k. (Not saying he did this, just a reason for the rule to be put in place.) When you declare for two events at regionals, that's just the risk you take. The right decision was made in the end, but the officials messed up even letting him start. Completely fair.

Although, this isn't law it violates the "innocent until proven guilty" principle. We have no proof that he stopped because he knew he wasn't going to qualify. Even though we have no proof that it was an honest effort, there might be somewhere but we don't know it, nobody should assume his dropping out of the race due to injury was dishonest.

I hope Purnell is pleased with himself and his unearned trip to nationals. Most likely will be his only chance, hope he enjoys it.

I was at the meet and saw one of the Providence runners go down like a tranquillized elephant near the steeplechase pit at about 8,000m. It took over 2 minutes and at least 2 public address announcements for med staff to attend to him. I wonder if that kind of attention would have gotten him in the 10 if he was entered.

Typo ---the 5,000.

this is bs tho wrote:

Although, this isn't law it violates the "innocent until proven guilty" principle. We have no proof that he stopped because he knew he wasn't going to qualify. Even though we have no proof that it was an honest effort, there might be somewhere but we don't know it, nobody should assume his dropping out of the race due to injury was dishonest.

I hope Purnell is pleased with himself and his unearned trip to nationals. Most likely will be his only chance, hope he enjoys it.

The OP does not say that Degfae was injured. He wrote that he has a "fear of injury" because of a tight hamstring. So they admit he dropped out to preserve himself for the 5000 M. You can't do that.

Also two other runners from Providence and Georgetown DNF'd from the 10,000 but did not come back to run the 5,000 despite qualifying. So if you can't finish a race, you don't get to come back later in the meet. I have no sympathy for the VT runner.

"his hamstring tightened up and was seriously affecting his stride, so much so that he had to drop out of the race for fear of injury."

Oh come on . . . wrote:The OP does not say that Degfae was injured. He wrote that he has a "fear of injury" because of a tight hamstring. So they admit he dropped out to preserve himself for the 5000 M. You can't do that.

Also two other runners from Providence and Georgetown DNF'd from the 10,000 but did not come back to run the 5,000 despite qualifying. So if you can't finish a race, you don't get to come back later in the meet. I have no sympathy for the VT runner.

"his hamstring tightened up and was seriously affecting his stride, so much so that he had to drop out of the race for fear of injury."

dropping out to aviod an injury (like a pulled hammy) isn't the same as saving yourself for a later race. It may help save some energy for the later race, but I think avoiding turning some hamstring tightness into a muscle strain is a good idea. Dropping out with hammy pain is something I'd rather see than trotting around the track a few more times to please the officials (who didn't bother to scratch the athlete from the 5,000). who is supposed to be keeping track of that?

"We could always start a social media campaign to "encorage" Tom Purnell. It worked against Jordan Hasay this spring."

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No, this wouldn't be right. Jordan is a Nike runner, so she deserves the wrath of the LR crowd. LR would never expend energy to campaign against one of their "certified runners" (defined as anyone not part of NOP, Oregon, OTC).

What a phony bunch we have here.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5826982&page=0#ixzz33W8WXUmQ

I agree with you. There may be a way to work the rules, but as a coach do you really want to go there? Best to let the athletes work things out on the track. The status of all entrants for the 5K should have been resolved prior to the VA Tech runner being allowed to run the race. If he was deemed a legitimate runner at the start of the 5K then seeking a disqualification after the race is run to try and move up a non-qualifier is low.

The Harvard coach is a douche.

Always was, always will be.

The VA Tech coaches have an obligation to their athletes to not only know the rules, but make sure their athletes know the rules. It seems like an open and shut case that he should have been disqualified. An athlete has to know the ramifications of dropping out of a race.

I had a very similar situation in my conference meet. Running the 10K on an extremely hot day, I was in scoring position at 4 miles, but developed heat stroke. I was weaving all over the track, but I refused to drop out as our coach made sure we all knew the details of the honest effort rule and I was entered in the 5K the following day. Eventually I was physically pulled from the track. I was treated by the medical staff, and my coach appealed to get me allowed to race the 5K. The appeal was approved, and I scored in the 5K the next day. But there was no question that without an appeal and agreement from the medical staff, I would not have been allowed to run another event.

E2 wrote:

I had a very similar situation in my conference meet. Running the 10K on an extremely hot day, I was in scoring position at 4 miles, but developed heat stroke. I was weaving all over the track, but I refused to drop out as our coach made sure we all knew the details of the honest effort rule and I was entered in the 5K the following day. Eventually I was physically pulled from the track. I was treated by the medical staff, and my coach appealed to get me allowed to race the 5K. The appeal was approved, and I scored in the 5K the next day. But there was no question that without an appeal and agreement from the medical staff, I would not have been allowed to run another event.

Dude, attempting to kill yourself with heatstroke is not a good example. You should have pulled yourself from the race.

Agreed, your example is highlighting a coach's recklessness with your health in combination with your stupidity rather than an example of following a rather subjective rule.

Heatstroke is deadly and you were an idiot for doing that.

VA Tech kid went 8000 meters and had to drop out. He didn't run the first 3200 and drop, he ran 5 miles of a 6.2 mile race and realized he couldn't physically continue safely.

fcking NCAA getting in the way of good Track and Field competition.

Bunch of bullsht, are you kidding me?

How can anyone really say that this is anything but NCAA incompetence with a straight face?

Let them fcking run the race. If this rule exists, then the officials should have pulled him from the 5 before the race ever fcking started.

This is just total bullsht. Period.

I second this post. If you're going to disqualify him, do it before he runs an entire race. Don't pull some bs after someone has given everything they had to qualify and tell him it wasn't enough. Lee is an amazing runner and even better person and deserved a trip to Eugene more than someone who has to cheat their way in.

The only question here is what constitutes "honest effort". An excerpt from the rulebook has been posted

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"A situation that is cited frequently involves a competitor who is physically present at a running event, makes an attempt by

participating in the start and then after a very few steps, withdraws from the event or fails to attempt to be competitive during

the event. This is not by definition a Failure to Participate, therefore not a situation covered in Rule 4-2.2. However, it may be

an Honest Effort situation. Contrary to some belief, Honest Effort does exist, and Honest Effort is not the same as Failure to

Participate. Honest Effort requires a competitor to compete in an honest and sporting manner to the best of their ability within

an event, Rule 4-2.1. Not doing so is a violation and treated as Misconduct or Unsporting conduct. Unsporting conduct, such

as issues of behavior, intentional false starts or non-competitiveness, are all treated in the same manner.

"

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IMO, the rule was not broken as the VT athlete competed thru 88% of the race. Had he run 5000 meters or less I would see a disqualification being acceptable. However, given the circumstances of this condition, the DQ was unnacceptable.

I also agree with a previous poster in regards to the OP. If you want to make an argument, skip the emotional stuff and stick to the facts.