Josh Hamilton's Addiction wrote:
NotAustin18 wrote:Brutal? what was their training specifically? (just curious)
I believe the coach's philosophy was that race day should be the easiest day of the week. As for specifics, I have no idea. But I guess he didn't believe in easy days.
Do you think they were like Salazar of the 80s? in that double 6 days a week long run Sunday, moderate to hard workout 5-6 days a week, 100-120 mpw.
Here's a sample of what was published. They did 8-10 mile fartlek every morning and had a workout in the afternoon. They consistently ran between 120-140 miles a week. Rudy also roomed with Salazar at Oregon. Also note that the quoted 10k mark is not is his best high school mark. Chapa ran a high school record of 28:32 (which still stands).
"Rudy Chapa
by Fred Wilt
Born: November 7, 1957 at East Chicago, Indiana. Ht/Wt: 5-8/132, 1.725/60. Started racing in 1973 at age 14 years.
Background: Chapa was Indiana High School 2-mile champion in 1974 and 1975, and 21/2-miles cross-country champion in 1975. He, won the 10,000m in the US vs USSR Jr.: International match in 1975. He wins most of his races by fearless pace-setting, but has a vicious finishing kick. Attends Hammond HS.
Best Marks: 440y (52.0); 88Oy (1:53.0); mile (4:11.0); 2-miles (8:51.0); 6 miles (28:23.0); 10,000m (29:11.0).
Pre-race warmup: Jog 88Oy. Calisthenics. Jog 880y. 4-5 x lOOy fast runs or sprints. Total distance 11/4 miles. Pre-training warmup: Jog 3/4-mile in about 6 minutes. Warmdown after training Jog one mile after track workouts. Otherwise, no warmdown Rest prior to competition: One full day prior to major races only. No morning workouts when competing in the afternoon.
Morning training: Run 60 to 70 minutes continuously, starting at 6:00 AM daily throughout the year, except as noted above. This continuous run is at a reasonably fast pace on streets and roads. The pace is increased once each mile of the run for a distance of about 440y.
The following are evening workouts, in addition to the above daily morning training.
FALL AND WINTER TRAINING (1975-76)
Monday—PM, 3 x 3 miles. Jog 1/2 mile after each.
Tuesday—PM, 4 x 2 miles. Jog 3/4 mile after each.
Wednesday—PM, 75 minutes continuous fast run on roads.
Thursday—PM, Fast, continuous runs of 3-miles, 21/4-miles, 1 1/2-miles, and 3/4 mile. Jog 3/4 mile recovery after each.
Friday—PM, 7 1/2 miles time trial.
Saturday—PM, 60 minutes fast road run.
Sunday—AM, 90 minutes road run. PM, Rest.
SPRING AND SUMMER TRAINING
Monday—PM, 6 x 3/4 mile fast runs. Jog 3/4 mile after each.
Tuesday—PM, 10 x 440y as fast as possible under the circumstances. Jog 88Oy recovery after each.
Wednesday—PM, 75 minutes continuous fast run.
Thursday—PM, 8 x 880y at as fast pace as possible under the circumstances. Jog 44Oy after each.
Friday—PM, 7 1/2 miles time trial.
Saturday—PM, 60 minutes fast continuous run.
Sunday—PM, 90 minutes continuous run.
Chapa lifts weights Monday, Wednesday, and Friday each week, consisting of 3 sets of 10 repetitions of military press, bench press, and curls. He is coached by Dan Candiano. Chapa competes in ten 2 1/2-mile cross-country races, 5 indoor track, races, and ten outdoor mets annually.
Except when resting the day prior to major competition, Chapa merely substitutes competition for the above training on the day of a race. He eats no food for four hours prior to racing. He rests one week at the end of cross-country, indoor, and outdoor racing seasons before starting workouts for the succeeding racing season."
Here's a cool Runnersworld article on them:
http://www.runnersworld.com/high-school-profiles/magic-maywood-park?page=single
A few more with 3 sub-9 for 3200, per Hoffman/Athletic.net
York (IL)
Ferris (WA)
Seattle Prep (WA)
Redwood (Larkspur, CA)
Shawnee Mission (KS) - 3rd is 9-flat converted from 2 miles
Somebody, maybe me, needs to pull Hoffman's list, clean it up and combine it with Dyestat/TFN performance lists since ~2000 and get the mile/two mile lists all in one place!
NotAustin18 wrote:
lease wrote:Apologies--I got that a bit wrong. The slowest of the three was 8:56.x for two miles--call it sub-8:53 for 3200.
Hammond's training was famously brutal--so much so that, despite having the same three guys finish something like 1-2-5 in the State xc meet, Hammond did not win the team title. Their other guys were completely beaten up and it took them a very long time to get #4 and #5 across the line.
Brutal? what was their training specifically? (just curious)
[Took me a while, but here's Rudy Chapa's HS training (from Track Technique #64). NOTE that Hammond High did not have a track, so "track" work--in fact, most PM training--was done on a 3/4-mile loop in a park. This regimen included virtually no "easy" days. Candiano's philosophy was that meet day (except for major championships) should be the easiest day of the week. There was considerable competition among the runners within workouts.]
Born: November 7, 1957 at East Chicago, Indiana. Ht/Wt: 5-8/132, 1.725/60. Started racing in 1973 at age 14 years.
Background: Chapa was Indiana High School 2-mile champion in 1974 and 1975, and 2 1/2-miles cross-country champion in 1975. He won the 10,000m in the US vs USSR Jr. International match in 1975. He wins most of his races by fearless pace-setting, but has a vicious finishing kick. Attends Hammond HS.
Best Marks: 440y (52.0); 88Oy (1:53.0); mile (4:11.0); 2-miles (8:51.0); 6 miles (28:23.0); 10,000m (29:11.0).
Pre-race warmup: Jog 88Oy. Calisthenics. Jog 880y. 4-5 x lOOy fast runs or sprints. Total distance 1 1/4 miles.
Pre-training warmup: Jog 3/4-mile in about 6 minutes. Warmdown after training: Jog one mile after track workouts. Otherwise, no warmdown.
Rest prior to competition: One full day prior to major races only. No morning workouts when competing in the afternoon.
Morning training: Run 60 to 70 minutes continuously, starting at 6:00 AM daily throughout the year, except as noted above. This continuous run is at a reasonably fast pace on streets and roads. The pace is increased once each mile of the run for a distance of about 440y.
The following are evening workouts, in addition to the above daily morning training.
FALL AND WINTER TRAINING (1975-76)
Monday—PM, 3 x 3 miles. Jog 1/2 mile after each.
Tuesday—PM, 4 x 2 miles. Jog 3/4 mile after each.
Wednesday—PM, 75 minutes continuous fast run on roads.
Thursday—PM, Fast, continuous runs of 3-miles, 2 1/4-miles, 1 1/2-miles, and 3/4 mile. Jog 3/4 mile recovery after each.
Friday—PM, 7 1/2 miles time trial.
Saturday—PM, 60 minutes fast road run.
Sunday—AM, 90 minutes road run. PM, Rest.
SPRING AND SUMMER TRAINING
Monday—PM, 6 x 3/4 mile fast runs. Jog 3/4 mile after each.
Tuesday—PM, 10 x 440y as fast as possible under the circumstances. Jog 88Oy recovery after each.
Wednesday—PM, 75 minutes continuous fast run.
Thursday—PM, 8 x 880y at as fast pace as possible under the circumstances. Jog 44Oy after each.
Friday—PM, 7 1/2 miles time trial.
Saturday—PM, 60 minutes fast continuous run.
Sunday—PM, 90 minutes continuous run.
Chapa lifts weights Monday, Wednesday, and Friday each week, consisting of 3 sets of 10 repetitions of military press, bench press, and curls. He is coached by Dan Candiano. Chapa competes in ten 2 1/2-mile cross-country races, 5 indoor track races, and ten outdoor meets annually.
Except when resting the day prior to major competition, Chapa merely substitutes competition for the above training on the day of a race. He eats no food for four hours prior to racing. He rests one week at the end of cross-country, indoor, and outdoor racing seasons before starting workouts for the succeeding racing season.
Well, shucks--qwerty beat me to it.
Dr. Steve Brule wrote:
A few more with 3 sub-9 for 3200, per Hoffman/Athletic.net
York (IL)
Ferris (WA)
Seattle Prep (WA)
Redwood (Larkspur, CA)
Shawnee Mission (KS) - 3rd is 9-flat converted from 2 miles
Somebody, maybe me, needs to pull Hoffman's list, clean it up and combine it with Dyestat/TFN performance lists since ~2000 and get the mile/two mile lists all in one place!
Ferris has only had 2 guys sub-9 (Rick Riley and Isaac Hawkins). Their #3 was Randy James (9:03.3y I believe).
As posted earlier, the three Washington teams that have had 3+ under 9:
Mead (6), North Central (4), Seattle Prep (3). Joel Ferris, Shadle Park, Bishop Blanchet and Garfield have all had 2 under 9 (Ferris being the closest to adding a third, though Shadle Park and Blanchet's #3's were both in the 9:01's ... I don't think Garfield's #3 broke 9:10, so they are still a ways off).
watchout wrote:
Ferris has only had 2 guys sub-9 (Rick Riley and Isaac Hawkins). Their #3 was Randy James (9:03.3y I believe).
Hoffman's list had James at 8:59, but with a ? next to it. I just double checked in my Washington Track and Field Annual's list has his time converted to 9:00.1. Guess that's a... no?
i think it's been referred to, but not posted, so here's hoffman's somewhat dated list:
http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods.htm
stiles is correct: not many with MORE than 3, and there is some ambiguity as far as sub-9 2 mile (big bear would only have 1) vs. sub-9 3200 (now they have 3)...
either way, nice job coach, and good luck next week...
Dr. Steve Brule wrote:
watchout wrote:Ferris has only had 2 guys sub-9 (Rick Riley and Isaac Hawkins). Their #3 was Randy James (9:03.3y I believe).
Hoffman's list had James at 8:59, but with a ? next to it. I just double checked in my Washington Track and Field Annual's list has his time converted to 9:00.1. Guess that's a... no?
Yeah, I saw that on his list as well. I'm not saying the WA T&F Annual can't be wrong, but it seems more concrete than Hoffman's list.
socal cush wrote:
i think it's been referred to, but not posted, so here's hoffman's somewhat dated list:
http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods.htmstiles is correct: not many with MORE than 3, and there is some ambiguity as far as sub-9 2 mile (big bear would only have 1) vs. sub-9 3200 (now they have 3)...
either way, nice job coach, and good luck next week...
Does Ryan Hall's dad still coach there?
word. wrote:
probably arcadia with moussa and others, I believe jesuit in sacramento with mark mastalir, paul thomas and a few more
Arcadia has had two.
Moussa and Esteban De La Rosa who broke 9:00 in this year's slow heat at the Arcadia Invite.
I think a 4:10 mile is roughly comparable to 9:00. One of the schools mentioned, Jesuit, has had like 7 sub-4:10 milers, including the Mastilirs.
I talked to Dan Candiano's wife at Hammond High years ago, and I recall her telling me that Dan stopped coaching at Hammond shortly after Chapa graduated. He was still young, in his 30's I believe. He did resume coaching for a short time a few years later at a different high school, and iirc had a kid run about 9:17 there.
Sally Vixxxxens wrote:
I think a 4:10 mile is roughly comparable to 9:00. One of the schools mentioned, Jesuit, has had like 7 sub-4:10 milers, including the Mastalirs.
Yes, Jesuit has had an amazing four boys all run 4:04 for 1600m. Can you imagine being #4 on your high school's all-time list with a 4:04?
NotAustin18 wrote:
Does Ryan Hall's dad still coach there?
Ryan and Chad Hall's dad retired from coaching in 2008.
it would be interesting to see if a coach could still coach like Candiano today without getting sued or something, talk about old school. those kids were tough.
Camarillo has had (I'm pretty sure) four under 9
Doesn't Northport NY have 3 guys under 9 this season? If not, they are very close.
who will be the first school with 5 sub-9:00s in the same season? absolutely possible with training like Hammond was doing.
king candiano! wrote:
who will be the first school with 5 sub-9:00s in the same season? absolutely possible with training like Hammond was doing.
There still hasn't been one with four!
How may does the Woodlands have all time? I remember they had a ridiculous amount of sub 10 runners and a long thread on that. As good a history as they have I have to think they have had a few sub 9s.