Where does Rupp come in your all-time greatest American distance runner list?

Caged wrote:

Lagat did his greatest feats as a Kenyan, not an American. As an American he has been very good, but nothing great.

Are you shitting me?

well., wrote:

word. wrote:

What other ARs?

3000 indoor

2 mile indoor

50000 indoor

He has one AR that means anything (meaning outdoor in a real event...3k and 2m can't both count as important races and neither is in the Olympics). I'd like to see him take the 5000 from Lagat this year. I bet he would have a chance at the HM record too.

he does have a silver medal in the 10k. I'd say 4th

He has actually set a lot of indoor records. He and Lagat have been trading those records for years. He has two American outdoor 10000m records. This one was set in a victory with a closing 800 only 1 second behind Solinsky's celebrated 26:59 close. His indoor 2M record is 8:07, or a few tenths of a second from the outdoor 2M record, so he could surely get that one as well. He has run 7:30.16i, so Lagat's 7:29 outdoor AR is very much within reach. He has yet to run close to Lagat's outdoor 5000m record, being five seconds off. That should happen this year. And he has run 3:50i in the mile, so he has quite the shot at running close to the American record in the mile outdoors. I would think that he could run 3:48 in the next month. This looks to be a very fun outdoor season.

My ranking, factoring in Olympic golds, world records, World golds, other championship medals, major victories, world rankings (consistency), American records, competition, and longevity, in that order:

1. Bernard Lagat (as an American: 3:29AR, 7:29 AR, 12:53 AR, but ran 3:27 in 2004 after becoming an American citizen. Blocked from competing at 2005 world's because of citizenship switch and competed for Kenya in 2004. 2007 double world gold medalist at 1500/5000. Many other world and olympic indoor and outdoor medals.) The lack of an Olympic title is of course significant but as a Kenyan he lost only to a 3:26 and a 3:43 guy and then he was injured in 2008 and old in 2012.

2. Jim Ryun 3:51.3 and 3:51.1 and 1:44 world records plus 8:25 American record, a silver medal at Mexico City, would surely have won gold had there been a 1967 World Championships (the first was in 1983), as that was his greatest year and showed the capacity to run generations ahead had he had a pacer and a synthetic track in 1967.

I have to think more about those after the top two.

Breaking the same record twice isn't the same as holding 2 records. It does make it a lot tougher for someone to take his record though!

1. Shorter

2. Ryun

3. Rogers

4. Lagat

5. Meb

6. Rupp

7. Pre

Rupp will probably move up on this list. He is still young enough.

a weak wr or an insane ar.....

Snivel v3 wrote:

Ryun over Rupp. WR greater than AR.

1. Ryun

2. Rupp

3. Shorter

4. Lagat

5. Kennedy

Midnight Racer wrote:

13:01 and 8:07 indoors. your welcome.

Your welcome what?

Since you are reduced to name-calling, at least know the difference between a metaphor and an analogy.

Listen, I think that among marathoners, I would rank only Shorter ahead of Meb. Maybe Rodgers. Meb is an all-time great. But trying to compare an all-time American great on the track with an all-time American great on the roads is not an easy comparison. It is not out of this world to call Pre better than Meb (And I do believe an honest argument can be made for the reverse, but you are given to hyperbole in dismissing Pre). During Pre's era, there wasn't the plethora of "American" titles on an annual basis. There was an AAU meet and the Olympic Trials. It also doesn't help that Pre was dead by 24. Regardless, Pre's times were competitive with the best in the world. Meb's times are relatively insignificant on the world stage (it's the reason why the elite field let him go at Boston). Meb has won US titles during the time when American distance running was weak when compared to the world. Look at his stats on USATF during his main years on the track:

2007: Outdoor bests – 10,000m, 27:41.26 (No. 3 in the USA, No. 43 in the world); 10 km, 27:58 (No. 1 in the USA, No. 25 in the world); half marathon, 1:02:22 (No. 3 in the USA); marathon , 2:15:09 (No. 8 in the USA, ranked No. 9 in the USA by T&FN)

2006: Outdoor bests – 10,000m, 28:18:74 (No. 10 in the USA, ranked No. 6 in the USA by T&FN); 15 km, 43:43 (No. 2 in the USA)

2005: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:20.71 (No. 9 in the USA); 10,000m, 28:10.57 (No. 4 in the USA, ranked No. 2 in the USA by T&FN); marathon, 2:09.56 (No. 1 in the USA by T&FN)

2004: Outdoor bests – 10,000m, 27:24.10 (No. 1 in the USA, No. 17 in the world); 15 km, 43:19 (No. 1 in the USA, No. 5 in the world); marathon, 2:09:53 (No. 2 in the USA)

2003: Outdoor bests – 3,000m, 7:48.81 (No. 4 in the USA); 5,000m, 13:20.50 (No. 1 in the USA, ranked No. 2 in the USA by T&FN); 10,000m, 27:57.59 (No. 4 in the USA, No. 43 in the world, ranked No. 2 in the USA in the world by T&FN); 15 km, 43:31 (No. 1 in the USA, No. 13 in the world); 20 km, 58:57 (No. 1 in the USA, No. 24 in the world); marathon, 2:10:03 (No. 1 in the USA)

2002: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:21.87 (No. 1 in the USA by T&FN, ranked No. 9 in the world by T&FN); 10,000m, 27:20.15 (No. 1 in the USA by T&FN, No. 8 in the world, ranked No. 9 in the world by T&FN); 15 km, 42:48 (No. 1 in the USA, No. 3 in the world); marathon, 2:12:35 (No. 4 in the USA)

2001: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:23.16; 10,000m, 27:13.98 (ranked No. 2 in the USA by T&FN)

2000: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:11.77 (ranked No. 3 in the USA by T&FN); 10,000m, 27:53.63 (ranked No. 1 in the USA by T&FN)

1999: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:40.86; 10,000m, 28:29.27

1998: Outdoor bests – 1,500m, 3:42.29; mile, 4:02.86; 5,000m, 13:26.85; 10,000m, 28:16.79

1997: Outdoor bests – 1,500m, 3:43.95; 5,000m, 13:33.97; 10,000m, 28:26.55

1996: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:37.0; 10,000m, 29:55.75

1995: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 13:52.06

JBS needs to be on this list (well ahead of Rupp). Heck, Deena Kastor is probably ahead of Rupp (still) when you considered total body of work.

I'm glad someone gave Bob Kennedy his due. Context matters.

Rupp may have run Pre's 5000 AR back-to-back, but he still hasn't caught up. Pre's NCAA career was significantly better than Rupp's.

smartness wrote:

a weak wr or an insane ar.....

Snivel v3 wrote:

Ryun over Rupp. WR greater than AR.

insane ar? what are you smoking? bekele's wr is more than one second per lap faster than rupp.

Caged wrote:

Lagat did his greatest feats as a Kenyan, not an American. As an American he has been very good, but nothing great.

He has beaten Rupp nearly every time he has raced him and has set several ARs and won a 1500/5000 WC double gold in 2007.

If you count Lagat as an American since he became a citizen -- and that is what an American is -- there is no way to give Rupp the nod ahead of him

Analogy was used properly. Go back to school.

Our sport is about competing and winning races. Pre's best race is about as good as Meb's 4th best race, when Meb was injured. I'm not going to be civil when the comparison is this ludicrous. If it was a discussion about two with a similar resume then I agree my tone would be out of line but you are so off base that I can't keep my composure. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

I can't believe I'm the first to at least mention Bob Schul or Billy Mills. Why no love?

Same goes for Lagat vs Rupp - they are not in the same ballpark.

young people have short attention spans.

The Angel of Death wrote:

I can't believe I'm the first to at least mention Bob Schul or Billy Mills. Why no love?

slopenguinrunner wrote:

The Rocket. wrote:

I want to say 1st, but it's too hard to ignore his record against Lagat.

1. Lagat

2. Rupp

3. Ryun

4. Meb

5. Hall/Webb/Ritz

I would put Prefontaine and Shorter ahead of Meb. And the are definitely ahead of Hall, Webb and Ritz.

With the records and Olympic medal, I think Rupp can be considered a better American distance runner than Prefontaine. Granted, no one will be as iconic as Pre.

Shorter has a gold and silver in the Olympic marathon. Can you imagine the orgasm the fanboys here where would have if one of the modern idols did this?

I'm sure someone could create a point system to quantify medals, records, marathon majors and overall win/loss record to have a pretty decisive list. That someone would not be me though.

I wouldn't say Lagat's World Championships 1500/5000 double gold was chopped liver.