Why does everyone consider El G a doper but not Kiprop?

rekrunner wrote:

Not all of them. Lagat didn't test positive.

He was tested positive and suspended until his B sample was tested.

Not sure how much it matters, but El G was 5'9 128 lbs, Ramzi was 5'8 and 143 lbs. Mourhit's BMI was also much closer to Ramzi's than El G's and he ran longer distances. Much more muscular, higher BMI, totally different training methodology.

I would not associate El G with them simply because they were from the same country. They were different people who trained very differently.

ALAN MF WEBB wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Not all of them. Lagat didn't test positive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3078642.stm

Mile Running Expert wrote:

I would not associate El G with them simply because they were from the same country.

I would ,this is Morocco were talking about

look at aouita

soon as he hangs up his spikes he's off pushing dope on athletes he's coaching

I don't want to be pedantic, so nevermind.

R2D3 wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Not all of them. Lagat didn't test positive.

He was tested positive and suspended until his B sample was tested.

El G was the pinnacle product of one of the greatest state-sanctioned doping programs in track history, during the period when the gap between drug technology and testing was at it's height. That era collapsed when he retired, and the testers had made too many inroads on the Moroccan drug dynasty. Even Ramzi had to exodus to Bahrain to ply his "trade".

With respect to systemic political protection v. testing, Kiprop, by comparison is running with ankle weights, at best. Doesn't mean he's not doping, but it's far less likely.

LLAP wrote:

good kush & alcohol wrote:

how about this

El G never failed an in-competition drug test

so as far as i'm concerned, he never raced while doped.

HOWEVER

i highly doubt he was routinely tests whilst up in those Moroccan mountains with his small elite training group. what went on during his training phase is a little bit more up for debate. perhaps he used epo to recover faster in training.

but he never raced dirty.

What? If you're training dirty, you're racing dirty.

They seem me runnin,' they hatin,'

patrollin' tryin to catch me racin' dirtttaayy

Different doping regimes.

If you have a Lance Armstrong style program where you can consistently beat the doping agencies you can maintain a high level of consistent performance because you really don't care about the tests.

If you have a harder more stringent testing period you have to be smarter and try to avoid it, so you're less likely to be consistent.

I think we grew up in the 90's/2000's and were smart enough to realize that a good amount of athletes were taking PED's. It sucks but anyone naive enough to assume that doping was a problem in cycling, baseball, football...but not track...is an idiot.

Lantern wrote:

ALAN MF WEBB wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3078642.stm

SPIEGEL: Do you have any other secrets?

Heredia: Oh yes, of course. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don’t excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. I’ve created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers.

http://pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=6611

"Peak performances without doping are a fairytale, my friend."

el guerrouj was the right man at the right time

and i believe the same probably applies to bekele and geb

I don't think theres any possible way they operated drug-free in that era

rekrunner wrote:

ALAN MF WEBB wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3078642.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/3156744.stm

Great Job Dude wrote:

crossfit all american wrote:

the reason el G is sketchy is his consistancy

That's why El G is NOT sketchy. When you're doped you have to go on/off to avoid the tests. When you're consistent you can improve to a higher level than you could with constant setbacks.

no, you don't have to go on/off. lol. how did you come to that conclusion?

Different facts. Jones is not Lagat.The article also notes "the A sample was questionable".

ALAN MF WEBB wrote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=2576909

rekrunner wrote:

ALAN MF WEBB wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=2576909

Different facts. Jones is not Lagat.

The article also notes "the A sample was questionable".

No, the same facts - positive A sample, negative B sample. Just like Lagat.

Jones was of course on epo all along.

ALAN MF WEBB wrote:

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

Jones was of course on epo all along.

and so was lagat

the crafty fox upped his game after the surprise test

Kiprop has been exceptionally fast since he was a junior and is still young. I don't believe he's a doper. He his a freak tho. He's tall and extremely long and thin and can really gobble up real estate with his stride. He's been a moronic racer at times for sure but I think he's clean. I don't think everyone is clean but I do think that he is.

Your right noone said this wrote:

Kiprop has been exceptionally fast since he was a junior and is still young. I don't believe he's a doper. He his a freak tho. He's tall and extremely long and thin and can really gobble up real estate with his stride. He's been a moronic racer at times for sure but I think he's clean. I don't think everyone is clean but I do think that he is.

is his coach a master doper like the rumors say?

a former cycling doctor now working in kenya

'long and thin and can really gobble up real estate with his stride. [/quote]

More stupid phrases nobody uses in the real world

What ever happened to the (frozen) samples taken at the 2004 Olympics? I half recall hearing they were ultimately thrown out, or the testing period expired, something like that. So it'd be a moot point.

When I first heard about these frozen samples, my thought was that El G might be in danger of losing his two golds.

Of course, Lagat's silver might come under scrutiny too.

Anyone have info on this?