Return to 400/800

When a Lets Run discussion degenerates, I always wonder...

1) Trolling?

2) Mild Aspergers?

3) Crankishness?

Training going fairly well with emphasis on building strength. On Phase 2 of the Ray Johnson circuits... should I also be looking at adding Gambetta leg circuit at the end or should I wait until later to do this?

Also, did one session of hill sprints... Feel fairly strong but could be a lot stronger (legs). I guess this will come over time? Cheers

Take your time with the circuits. Get though all of Johnson's progression before you move on to the Gambetta circuits - they are really hard.

To use a distance running term, the circuits are building a "base" onto which you can put heavier lifting and faster and more intense running.

Moving through the general strength progression helps you assure that all the parts of you are in balance and functioning together. You don't want to add strength on top of inbalance and disfunction.

The key with the hill sprints is not feeling sore. If you're not, go ahead and progress them. And remember they are not just making you strong - over time they will help program a better stride pattern

On the down stroke of your stride, think about stepping down, rather than out. On the recovery phase, think about getting your heel up to your butt as quickly as you can. Think step down, recover heal, step over, step down....

And if you have racing flats, wear those on the hill. You want to be as fast as you can.

Okay thanks Cali Guy, that all makes sense. The drills I am doing I am being more aware of putting in to practice, particularly on the hill sprints.

Close to another week done and feeling good.

Strength Circuits going well and have put on a bit of muscle (6'2", 178 pounds). Currently doing one hill session a week, a bit of tempo running and the rest is basic mileage (30+). Next three weeks will be progressing to GPP Phase as on Page 1 - pretty much dropping a day for another hill session...

What are your thoughts on my mileage? Probably need to up it a bit? Have been having a day off once a week.

Great post Cali Guy, not often someone goes to the effort of giving such an in depth plan on here.

ComeBackTrack wrote:

Close to another week done and feeling good.

Strength Circuits going well and have put on a bit of muscle (6'2", 178 pounds). Currently doing one hill session a week, a bit of tempo running and the rest is basic mileage (30+). Next three weeks will be progressing to GPP Phase as on Page 1 - pretty much dropping a day for another hill session...

What are your thoughts on my mileage? Probably need to up it a bit? Have been having a day off once a week.

The volume is probably OK, especially since you're more focused on speed and strength development right now. When you add the hill day, take the mileage from that day and distribute it to the other days.

I wouldn't suggest going any higher than 40 a week. And make sure you're counting your tempo runs and sprint work in the total volume.

You will probably want to keep the day off. I found that most of my further out guys recovered best by running at least 30 minutes a day, but that when we got down to people who race 800's, they almost always need a full day off every 7 days. The reason is that speed/power training is very taxing metabolically and to one's CNS, and your training gains will bog down without a day of complete rest.

Your next phase may not make you really tired, but it will be very taxing to your nervous system, so make sure you recover well and get your rest in.

Okay great that sounds good Cali Guy. Any particular structure you suggest for the week? With the introduction of 2 x hills, I was thinking (interested in your opinion) the GPP structure would be something along the lines of:

M Light Run + Upper Body Gym/Flexibility

T Hills + Strength

W Shake Out + Basic Run w/Drills

T Fartlek + Upper Body Gym/Flexibility

F Hills + Strength

S Easy Shake Out Run

S 50 min+

That looks fine. It's important to keep that space between the hill days.

Two suggestions...

Take one day a week off through at least the next two phases. As I mentioned above, you will need that day off to recover.

Move the drills to the days you do the hills. You want to be doing them twice a week, and you should be doing them with some intensity. If you do them on other days - it will interrupt your recovery from the hills.

Remember, the stronger you get, the more recovery you will need.

Sweet that sounds really good and do-able. I will either take Wednesday or Saturday as a rest day depending upon how I am feeling.

I really appreciate the advice and as I said, am working on it all. No idea how fast I can really go but this is definitely all helping in one way or another. Thank you.

I'm happy to help, and I love to watch (even just via message board posts) athletes getting better.

Appreciate it Cali Guy

Another week done, feeling a lot stronger than when I started. Giving myself two more weeks before progressing in to two hill sessions. My tempo running has been controlled and strong. Strength is on to Progression 3 and Drills are good. Noticed more flexibility in my hips with a strong back kick beginning to develop.

ComeBackTrack wrote:

Thanks for the advice. My fitness is okay, maybe like a 35-36 10km or something and a 16-17 5km. Was not planning to hit a track for quite a few months yet, just do some drills after easy runs, a bit of weight training. My speed for the 400m would be around 54-55 - seems to be my base speed.

"Some drills after easy runs"

"A bit of weight training."

That makes it sound like your not really committed.

Clyde Hart

https://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/2007/Sprint%20Training/Clyde_Hart3.pdf

Not a Coach wrote:

ComeBackTrack wrote:

Thanks for the advice. My fitness is okay, maybe like a 35-36 10km or something and a 16-17 5km. Was not planning to hit a track for quite a few months yet, just do some drills after easy runs, a bit of weight training. My speed for the 400m would be around 54-55 - seems to be my base speed.

"Some drills after easy runs"

"A bit of weight training."

That makes it sound like your not really committed.

No I was/am in a transition stage of running, that's all. But yes, sure, to an extent I could have been more committed to the cause. Now with a goal in mind I am committing to Cali Guy's advice on page one. Thanks for the Clyde Hart link too, good ideas for later stages.

Follow Cali's advice - start off longer and shorter and move your way into the middle.

For longer - if you aren't running longer then 800, then use cruise intervals. Say 6-8 x 1km at about 5-10km pace with short rests of 60-90". That gives you a good aerobic workout and can replace long slow running - which you don't need to do any of. Alternatively 4-5 x mile at 8-10km pace on 2 mins' rest.

About 3-4 months out from the big comp, move towards 200 training at the shorter end (flat out 120s one week, 150s the next, up to 200s) and mile training at the longer end. The mile training once a week can be vVo2max training, which is 25-30 mins of 1-3 minutes intervals at 2km pace and the same rest either walking or at 60% of 2km speed. For example 1 min hard (333m) and 180m jog recovery in 1 min, times 12-15.

Then at least 2 months before the main comp, do specialist 400-800 work. I'd suggest 4 workouts a week, one being 200-400 training, an 800 session, a mile session, and the cruise intervals.

Oh - and make sure you do core workouts from the start. You need to get your hammies, glutes and quads strong enough to sprint,

Who have you coached? What are your PR's?

Rudisha vs Amos wrote:

Who have you coached? What are your PR's?

My PR's were 10.1y and 22.4y in High School.

I've coached HS athletes who have run 1:50.xx, 1:53.xx and two at 1:54xx

I advised/worked along side more than directly coached two post-collegiate guys who ran 1:47.xx and 1:48.

But more to the point, why does that matter? If you think my suggestions don't work, suggest something better.

I appreciate it all Cali, believe me. It is great to have someone with knowledge point you in the right direction. Thanks again.