NIJEL AMOS LOOKING GOOD

Just re-watched the 800 final at London. As this dude kicks past Aman with about 150 to go, his form looks horrible, he is all over the place. If he can keep himself together like Rudisha surely he could go under 1:40.5

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

He won't run sub-1:42 again though.

History has proven that to run sub-1:42 more than once, you have to be at least 6 feet tall.

amazing analogy, you can also assume that to go under 1:42 twice you must be kenyan, and you must be coached by Colm O'Connell in their early years, or that they must have 6 letters in their middle name.

I mean cmon history has proven it.

LOL.

Two of my favorite posters going at it.

Win: Hingle.

Noble Kane wrote:The calculator by Jonas Mureika at

http://myweb.lmu.edu/jmureika/track/wind/400alt.html

corrects the 45.77 to 46.11 for sea level purposes. That's a 0.34 adjustment

that's the one i usually use

he does state that his calculator considers only physics of lesser air density/altitude & nothing at all for the physiological effect of hypoxia on a significantly aerobic event

most, if not all that 0.34s advantage shoud be countered by the handicap on the aerobic system

the ncaa app gives a 45.77 at ~ 4,926' as 45.88 at sea-level

HardLoper wrote:

trackcoach wrote:Not that it matters much, but I think it was determined by SAA that he is most likely 2 years older than his documented age.

Good research. I think that is significant if true.

very little

even if this unsubstantiated claim is true, it wouda still made him a 1'41.73 guy at 20y 4m

next bests

- rudy with 1'42.01 at 20y 9m

- cruz with 1/41.77 at 21y 5m

far more relevant is that he said he only took up running in '10 for a joke ( & states birthday as '94 ) & within 2y he was running 1'41.73 !!!

His aerobic system is too good for 2 years running til 1'41. Especially since he was doing it as a 'joke'.

Event 30 400m - Men A

1 Behr Anas Egypt 45.59

2 Amos Nijel NWU 45.77

3 Makwala Isaac Botswana 46.04

4 De Beer Willie Tuks 46.76

5 Seribe Pako Botswana 47.01

6 Norris Quinton UJ 47.12

7 Mokgobinyane Lesedi NWU 48.44

8 Skhosana Sonwabiso Fast Feet DNS

Speculator Speculator wrote:

Zuma, can you describe Coach Verster's training methodology a little? What does he concentrate on? Thanks very much

Sure, I always appreciate when other coaches share their training like Renato Canova. So I'll give an outline of what we do...

There is no secret, we follow a typical Lydiard based pyramid with a focus on decent mileage. Aerobic - Strength - Speed - Peak. I think the main difference is a year round focus on some type of speed even in the aerobic phase. We also work on a 7 day (hard day/easy day), three week (3 hard/1 easy) cycle with a big emphasis on recovery runs on grass or xc course. Sessions usually consist of a speed endurance session, speed session, a hill session and a long run. Depending on the time of the season the distances for the sessions vary.

Jean has a very long term approach to training. His methods are sometimes a struggle to adapt especially when coming from a speed based training background which is usually the case in South-Africa coming from high-school.

Nijel also had a hard time to adapt, I remember his first session with us he couldn't keep up on a 600m, after one 300m and he stopped(the set was 300,600,1000,600,300, I still have the note in my logbook from the day he joined). When you ever hear stories of Nijel not training that hard before 2013, they are true. That changed a lot - he is now very strong aerobically, he has natural speed and the most important - he has self confidence. This 45.77 400m was done of 0% 400m or 800m speed-work, except for the week before he did run a 21.95 200m also off base training!!!

I hope this is a bit insightful, I think it is the first concrete post on the type of training done under Jean Verster.

Jean ran for Nebraska a long time ago, he is a really great coach.

Coach if you are reading this I hope you don't mind I posted it :). H

MrGambinus wrote:His aerobic system is too good for 2 years running til 1'41. Especially since he was doing it as a 'joke'.

guy 2 posts down from you says opposite

Great work is being done in Potchefstroom, which produced the likes of Elroy Gelant and Andre Olivier, but it seems Amos ran 1:41 before ever doing any "aerobic" work, since he only joined the group in 2013.

The progression from now will be interesting in terms of what his new aerobic ability will, or will not, deliver.

ventolin^3 wrote:

guy 2 posts down from you says opposite

Then i need an explanation, how is this possible? Give him 45.5 400 speed (his PR is 45.66 but in peak shape should be faster) and he would still need 13'35 endurance for his 1'41.7. Take some seconds off because his endurance most likely does NOT fully extend to the 5k and it would be still around 14 flat endurance needed.

The statement above said pre 2013 he didn't take the lydiardish training very serious, so for London (which was in 2012) this leaves us with 2 years of nowhere near perfect aerobic training if we assume he started running 2010.

1'41.7 in 2 years of training is not just talent, its crazy. Aerobic demands are 3'30 flat 1500. (3'29 if endurance fully extends). OF 2 years of light training?? You can't push the aerobic system so much in so little time.

I can understand east africans running fast at age 18 but he seems to have no aerobic background at all considering the information we have.

I don't know how his London time was possible with this background, if every information is true he is the quickest responder to training we have ever seen and he has pretty much peaked or we can expect the world record to fall.

But the information on his training is interesting. Since he is DEFINITELY a 400/800 guy he is still trained in a lydiard way whereas most conventional methods would train him in a clyde hartt/igloi way. But the more aerobic approach/aerobic first way seems to work even for a quick guy like him.

Zuma wrote:

Event 30 400m - Men A

1 Behr Anas Egypt 45.59

2 Amos Nijel NWU 45.77

3 Makwala Isaac Botswana 46.04

4 De Beer Willie Tuks 46.76

5 Seribe Pako Botswana 47.01

6 Norris Quinton UJ 47.12

7 Mokgobinyane Lesedi NWU 48.44

8 Skhosana Sonwabiso Fast Feet DNS

As a by the way, that's an Egyptian national record for the winner Anas Beshr, improving on the 45.79 he ran last summer.

Beshr is only 20 years old himself.

he's run the 1'41, so analyse what is possible

as he has no over-distance at like like rudy, then don't try too hard

just suffice with his mention of 80km/week of mileage

he may very well have some decent over-distance but in absence of races i woudn't worry too much about what his 1500 or 5k ability is

your over-thinking/over-stressing yourself

all his endurance work has to do is make him last to 800m

it may not even last to 1k & he may not be able to crack even 2'15

he didn't run in '13, or it was very little early season

i'd wait until this season is in gear to judge what ever this lydiard training has done for him

it's happened

i also believe if they coud get some raw kenyan kids into this high-tech set-up, they'd also be running 1'41.7 in same time-frame

they'd bring less speed to 800 than nijel but lot more natural endurance to compensate

they coud probably churn out close to 1/2 dozen/y if they selected them properly & they were motivated

again

his mileage only has to keep him strong for 800m

he may not be able to break 3'45

then that sheds new thoughts on the 800 & that years of hard mileage in the legs is unnecessary

time to throw away some established pre-conceptions

he is a strong advocate of importance of genetics to running

i wasn't overly impressed by genetics argument before, but reading his training-mate's post, i'm more inclined to it

it happened, therefore follow logic :

possibly greatest intrinsic 800 talent we've seen + incredible genetics for running

the evidence indicates this

eh ???

how on earth do you conclude that ???

his training mate said he ran 45.77 off NO speed work !!!

also he said he is very strong aerobically

all this indicates he is in a position to demolish his 800b

logic indicates that is more likely scenario :

wr level

you are right with the over distance, he fell totally apart in the last 100 but don't not lose much time. But any step longer than 800 is hard for him.

The quick responder thing and how i mean it:

1) he responds so quick that 1'41 was his 'lifetime peak'. think alan webbs relatively short career packed into 2 years. But unlikely since his mentality was a bit lazy as they say

or

2) still underdeveloped and able tun run 1'40 (faster?)

Amos is a 1:41mid talent.

Remember. He did not dive at the line in London OG's. He did jog the last 4 steps.

I really wish I could give an explanation but Nijel definitely has a genetic advantage. I remember last year before his one and only Diamond League we joked around about the time we thought he was going to run knowing the training that he did (basically none) and coming back from injury. Well I said he'd be lucky to brake 1:48 and if he did he can be very happy considering the circumstances. He ran 1:44:71. We were all stunned.

Training with a guy like that can fool with your mind, trust me.

Just on another point, Nijel's age. I truly believe it is correct. I've been around Africa (Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Lesotho - basically the whole Southern-Africa) and Botswana is the best governed country by far, way way better than Kenya from what I've heard. Their child registration process is good - not flawless but good. Secondly, Nijel has matured physically since joining us, he has grown taller and more muscular, I doubt that would be the case with a old guy. The last thing, just being around him makes you realize he is very much still a teenager.

Nijel is a great guy and friend, we're a tight group here at Potch and very much a like a family and Nijel fitted right in.

Wow, good stuff, Zuma

Wow. Great news.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ME1ICNfDmlk

Here is the 400m Nijel is in the blue speed suit...