Canova says he has Caleb Nduki doing his easiest/recovery runs at no slower than 4:00 per K so that's like 6:25ish pace. That's the absolute slowest, so average is probably closer to 6:00. His regular distance runs are probably at 5:30 pace. So not wildly different than what Farah and Rupp might be doing.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5683520&page=0
SMJO wrote:
On letsrun a hobbyjogger is an 18:00 guy.
That leaves a narrow window .. anyone < 17:30 is a doper.
If Al said that, he would have no ex-physio basis. Easy-day effort should be 70 to 75% of max HR, give or take. Perhaps 5:30 would produce that for his guys, but I doubt it. I'd guess the correct effort would be 6 or 6+. One doesn't need to put the clock to it or measure HR. We all know what it feels like.
Their VDOT is about 83. Dr. Daniels recommends 5:14-5:57/M pace for "easy" runs.
I would run the pace that will allow me to race the fastest on race days and perform/complete the weekly workouts that are scheduled correctly.
When people talk about easy day pace (or even workouts for that matter) all I think about is slave to a watch/time. Run easy enough so the body recovers (if that is 7,8,9 min a mile or slower...who cares) and don't be a workout champion. Why is this so difficult to get? If Galen is running an easy day and the course is hilly, do you think he still runs 5:30 pace because that is what he 'should' be running.
My suspicion is that Galen and Mo on their easy days do runs around Nike's campus (or on treadmill) in a very controlled environment and in that setting they probably run 5:40ish once they get going. If they were simply running around the area, then it would depend on weather, terrain, etc and I tend to think they run by feel and not by pace.
runner who professes wrote:
If Al said that, he would have no ex-physio basis. Easy-day effort should be 70 to 75% of max HR, give or take.
"Ex-physio basis," huh? Your opinion is 100% subjective.
run2lkn wrote:
In the April edition of Running Times, Alberto Salazar claimed that he has Farah and Rupp running 5:30 on easy / recovery days. Are they really or is Salazar just trying to psych out opponents?
The Arkansas Razorbacks during the John McDonnell days would often get so fit that they too cruised their easy days at 5:30-5:45 on an easy 8 mile recovery day after circuits. Weights -n- 8! What's the big deal?
Wasn't ElG doing all his "Easy" runs 3:00-3:10/km. And the number of other guys who talked about regularly doing 55 min 10 milers is also huge. I am sure they have days when they run slow like 6:20 but I expect there are not many of them.
3 Big Loops 3 Small Loops wrote:
run2lkn wrote:In the April edition of Running Times, Alberto Salazar claimed that he has Farah and Rupp running 5:30 on easy / recovery days. Are they really or is Salazar just trying to psych out opponents?
The Arkansas Razorbacks during the John McDonnell days would often get so fit that they too cruised their easy days at 5:30-5:45 on an easy 8 mile recovery day after circuits. Weights -n- 8! What's the big deal?
Think I remember Bob Kennedy saying he was running the same pace on easy days when he was in sub-13 shape. Don't know why he feels like he needs to brag about it, but probably true.
The Educator wrote:
Think I remember Bob Kennedy saying he was running the same pace on easy days when he was in sub-13 shape. Don't know why he feels like he needs to brag about it, but probably true.
Stating a fact isn't bragging. Sharing is caring.
malmo wrote:
themanontherun wrote:I would be more likely to believe "as fast as" 5:30 pace as opposed to "average of" 5:30 pace. Between 5:30-6:00 would be about right as a percentage of their 5k PRs, relative to what most other runners might do.
Believe what you want, you are incorrect.
Salazar actually said,“they shouldn’t be running more than 1:30 per mile slower than what they do in a 5k race.”
That -1:30 would be 5:40 pace, which would be very easy for Galen-Mo.
There's probably a frame of reference issue with people who are much slower than whom they are talking about. Bob Kennedy with Kim MacDonald ran 5:40 pace for easy workouts, and let's not forget Bekele's supposed 30 mile runs in the forest...at altitude...at 5:40 pace. Lagat and El Guerrouj (and Cram) didn't appear to run anything that slow. For an NCAA finalist running somewhere around 15:30 (4:20 mile), adding 1:30 would be close to 6 min, which is also standard.
And a pure sprinter runs extensive tempo at ~70% speed (for Ato Boldon, a 19.8x guy, this was 8X200 in 26), which, strange as it might seem, comes out at just about the same ratio.
If you take 70-75% rather than pace plus 1:30, someone with a race pace of ~4:00 would be running recovery about 5:30, while someone running 5:00 pace (25% slower) is going to be going close to 7 min, and that is probably more representative of people posting here.
That would be 13:30 pace for an NCAA finalist at 4:20 pace, not 15:30.
Well according to this interview with G Mutai, he runs his easy miles at 6:30-8:00 mins. More often 8:00 than 6:30, it seems from his program.
Seems to work pretty good for him. Canova's and Salazar's boys still have a hard time to keep up with Geoffroy in races so...
Rets Lun wrote:
Well according to this interview with G Mutai, he runs his easy miles at 6:30-8:00 mins. More often 8:00 than 6:30, it seems from his program.
Seems to work pretty good for him. Canova's and Salazar's boys still have a hard time to keep up with Geoffroy in races so...
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/specials/boston-marathon/2012/04/13/how-geoffrey-mutai-trains-for-boston-marathon/ly49j27nrUdW4DW4lvCzUJ/story.html
Canova posted about that article not long ago stating it was what Geoffrey does before he starts his marathon build up
So in his marathon build up, Mutai runs easy work outs at 5:30? I don't think so. I think he runs his easy days by feeling.
I think Canova is making things to complicated, training is not rocket science. Mutai, Kimetto and the boys seems to do just fine without some professor giving them workouts that you have to be an engineer to understand. Run 543 meters at 98.65% of marathon pace and then alternate between 102,45% of half marathon pace and bla bla etc...
If you have the talent and you work hard, you get results.
BREAKING NEWS: Mo has changed his easy pace!!!
http://tonireavis.com/2014/03/17/the-fall-the-faint-the-form/Alberto acknowledged on Saturday that Mo’s total mileage per week had gone up from a previous high of 120 to an average of 130-140.
“His long runs are brutal,” said Al, “and take longer to recover from. But his easier runs are easier, too, as opposed to the moderately hard workouts for the track.”
Now you can quarrel over who of you were right.
I think I heard somewhere that they run between 5:30 and 8:30 per mile on easy runs. Don't quote me on that though.
I ran a couple of miles with Mo early last summer before he was heading over to run in a European race (the one where he ran a 5K that was a slower time,but with a 50.X last 400). I happened to come across him on the Hollister Trail near the Nike HQ and I ran along with him and we chatted about our families and such. Very little talk about running,actually. I know that it was an easy day for him,but I was looking at the markers and measuring pace and we were running about 6:15-6:20 pace. 6:00 pace would have been about the most that I could muster at the time, so it was by no means an easy run for me.
Super nice guy, very pleasant, soft spoken and humble. He actually introduced himself to me ("I'm Mo.") like I didn't even know who he was. That cracked me up.
runner who professes wrote:
If Al said that, he would have no ex-physio basis. Easy-day effort should be 70 to 75% of max HR, give or take. Perhaps 5:30 would produce that for his guys, but I doubt it. I'd guess the correct effort would be 6 or 6+. One doesn't need to put the clock to it or measure HR. We all know what it feels like.
I don't doubt it. Unless you've run with a world-class type, you've no idea how easy 6:00 pace is for those guys. 6:00 to 5:30 is no more than a little toe pressure on the accelerator pedal.
nikeman wrote:
I ran a couple of miles with Mo early last summer before he was heading over to run in a European race (the one where he ran a 5K that was a slower time,but with a 50.X last 400). I happened to come across him on the Hollister Trail near the Nike HQ and I ran along with him and we chatted about our families and such. Very little talk about running,actually. I know that it was an easy day for him,but I was looking at the markers and measuring pace and we were running about 6:15-6:20 pace. 6:00 pace would have been about the most that I could muster at the time, so it was by no means an easy run for me.
Super nice guy, very pleasant, soft spoken and humble. He actually introduced himself to me ("I'm Mo.") like I didn't even know who he was. That cracked me up.
Why aren't you special...