My 45 year old friend claims that if he breaks a 5:00 mile this makes him the 15th fastest miler ages 45-59 is this true

No you can't.

John Clendon wrote:

I'll name you five 45+ year old runners that can run a sub 5 min mile from a small town in upstate NY. There is no way that your 45 year old friend is right.

I'll name you a 60 yr old guy that could do that.

Highly doubt it. Every year that is a masters indoor mile in Bozeman Montana (at altitude), where there are typically 4 or 5 guys that break 5:00 and they are 45+.

Here was last year's race:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twC-F1xUzys

What Letsrunners here fail to realize is that while there are exceptional runners in the 45+ age groups, the depth is truly lacking. You get a few every year that can blast fast times but after that the ranks are thin. No doubt, however, the mastersrankings are under-reported.

As a 49 year old, let me say that I've declined more physically in the last 5 years than the previous 15 (I was at my best around the age of 30, I'd say). For most men, 45-50 is like 12-17 but in reverse. It sucks. There is no way in H-E double toothpicks that I could break 5 ever again. No. Way. I'd be pretty happy to break 6 right now and I've been running pretty consistently and I was, once upon a time, able to run sub 6's for over 30 miles. So, while it's not true that sub 5 will put your friend in the top 15 all time, it would be a pretty amazing accomplishment.

When he goes under 5 mins at the age of sixty he can start bragging. Unless he runs 45 secs under five he is not close

First things first. Ignore John Clendon. Known troll who scours these boards to make holier than though put downs to posts.

That said, here are this year's results from the Hartshorne Mile, you might call it a little backwater event but it's probably as or more competitive than the USATF masters indoor championships (top 5 went to 40-44 runners)

6 James Derick 48 Big Flats NY 4:45.13 87.84

7 Alan Wells 50 Orlando FL 4:45.65 89.09

8 Mike Nier 49 Rochester NY 4:48.35 87.56

9 Sean Smith 52 Maple Glen PA 4:52.86 88.32

10 Casey Carlstrom 54 Ithaca NY 4:55.93 88.86

11 Kevin Forde 50 Philadelphia PA 4:57.16 85.64

12 Jim Park 47 Buffalo NY 4:58.19 83.33

13 John Weiner 52 Osceola PA 5:00.70 86.02

14 Nolan Shaheed 64 Pasadena CA 5:03.07 94.64

Link wrote:

So, while it's not true that sub 5 will put your friend in the top 15 all time, it would be a pretty amazing accomplishment.

"amazing"?? I am not a hater, but I would not use that word.

Solid would be better. Pretty impressive. "Amazing" ? No.

To the OP-

Your friend might mean: if he breaks 5:00 at the indoor master's "nationals" this weekend, he might be in the top 15 in that race based on seed time (there are like 18 entered). inform him that there are probably at least another 25-35 runners currently able to do that around the country in that age group that won't bother running that race (would have travel a great distance and pay very price entry fee). (probably more). and there are another 20+ or more in the 50 and over age group. So in reality: he might be in the top 60-70 (rough conservative guess) or so of 45 and over runners in the country if he can break 5:00.

And if somehow he meant "all time" let him know that a sub-5 wouldn't put in the top several hundred for his age group world wide all time.

Bring him down gently.

A 5:00 or better will get you top 10-12 most years at the indoor championships. But indeed there are a fair number of 50-54 that can do that as well (about half as many). Note also that the indoor mile tends to be probably the most deep at any track distance (MD and LD), indoors or outdoors.

25 or 30 who could do it but not willing/able to afford the travel? Interesting and quite possible, but might bring that down a notch (leaving out "potential" runners who "could" break 5:00 but don't actually do it), so more like 15-25, meaning that somewhere around 25-35 runners in the 45-49 age group actually do break a 5:00 mile in a given year.

2013 USATF Indoor Championships, 1 mile

1 Barton, Brad M46 Unattached 4:24.71 8

2 O'Hara, Gerry M49 Unattached 4:39.83 6

3 Zimmerman, John M46 Unattached 4:43.23 4

4 Crowley, Brian M48 Garmin Runne 4:48.66 3

5 Ruby, Brent M45 Unattached 4:49.10 2

6 Lundberg, Brian M47 Twin Cities 4:52.16 1

7 Conway, Joe M45 Mass Velocit 4:53.30

8 Holland, Troy M48 Unattached 4:57.18

9 Williams, Jeffrey M48 Team GodSpee 4:58.08

10 Fioto Jr, Anthony M46 Shore Athlet 4:58.33

11 Burdett, Francis M48 Greater Spri 4:59.92

12 Mock, Doug M45 Baltimore Wa 5:00.26

13 FitzPatrick, Thomas M49 Central Park 5:03.45

14 Holmes, Eugene M48 Capital Area 5:11.04

15 Shearer, Andrew M49 Greater Phil 5:11.83

16 Williamson, Duane M49 Potomac Vall 5:17.26

17 Garcia, Alberto M46 Shore Athlet 5:21.41

Cicirunner wrote:

Well considering there are 40 yr old guys breaking 4 minutes in the mile,

You mean like, two?

thanks guys, I think I will burst his bubble. He's pretty full of himself.

I am 45 and I can break 5 for the mile, although barely. There's no way this is remarkable in any way that your friend suggests; it simply means he's a pretty decent age grouper.

Send him a few links to results and performance lists and say something like, "Hey, I found some cool sites with masters results." That way, you can "inform" him without seeming obnoxious yourself.

Don't even give me that troll junk.

http://www.leonetiming.com/2012/Roads/Festival/FestivalMen12.htm

John Clendon wrote:

I'll name you five 45+ year old runners that can run a sub 5 min mile from a small town in upstate NY. There is no way that your 45 year old friend is right.

I'll name you a 60 yr old guy that could do that.

Eddy Bane wrote:

No you can't.

I started running here in Southern Ontario about 15 years ago, and at the time, Ed Whitlock was still racing quite a few 5k's. He was running 17:30 - 17:35-ish fairly routinely in the 65-69 AG, and ran 17:23 during this period. I was an entrant in many of these events, and often was running near the same times so I saw it in front of my own eyes.

Although a 17:23 equates to about a 5:03-ish mile, I'm pretty confident his background as a miler when much younger more than suggests he was likely capable of going under 5 while in this 65-69 AG. I'm guessing that 5+ years earlier, when in his early 60s, it is even more likely that this would not have been much of an issue for him had he wanted to attempt it.

Your friend is correct. A sub 5 mile will probably get him in the top 15 indoor or outdoor mile US rankings in the 45-49 age group for the year.

Yes, there are others in older age groups running faster, guys doing in road miles, in training, and in longer races, but you have to race a mile on the track to record the result in the rankings.

Sub five and it's 1500 equivalent will also get you into the final at nationals in the 45-49 age group. It's a national class time for that age group.

John Clendon wrote:

Don't even give me that troll junk.

http://www.leonetiming.com/2012/Roads/Festival/FestivalMen12.htm

That course is very fast.

Moreover, you are an Arrogant SOB.

You know, Im turning 50 next year and am very confident I can run under 5:00. Based on the posts, it seems that would rank me highly. I cant believe more people dont run that fast? Disinterest and injry must be big factors.

pine bark wrote:

You know, Im turning 50 next year and am very confident I can run under 5:00. Based on the posts, it seems that would rank me highly. I cant believe more people dont run that fast? Disinterest and injry must be big factors.

Disinterest? Not so much. Injury? You win a million Bitcoins! And until you do it, surmising that you can go sub 5:00 at 50 is worth all that and more.

To gun wrote:

Your friend is correct. A sub 5 mile will probably get him in the top 15 indoor or outdoor mile US rankings in the 45-49 age group for the year.

Yes, there are others in older age groups running faster, guys doing in road miles, in training, and in longer races, but you have to race a mile on the track to record the result in the rankings.

Sub five and it's 1500 equivalent will also get you into the final at nationals in the 45-49 age group. It's a national class time for that age group.

I'd like to believe that my sub-5 ability on the track at age 45 would get me into the finals in the US national race in my AG, but I just don't believe it. I run low-17's for 5k and get beat routinely by others in my AG and even above on occasion. And I'm in Ontario. We're talking pretty small races. I'm just not that good. It doesn't make sense. I know guys that are 43 - 44 years old that are running 15:30 - 15:50 in every race they enter. Are they suddenly going to slow down that dramatically in 18 months or so?