For sure
They do have a boatload more talent than MSU at the moment for XC so they should be winning. I think MSU might be improving a bit but they have a lot of ground to make up on the boys side. It's going to be a fun battle to watch the 2 girls teams next year.
Indoor? wrote:
For sure
They do have a boatload more talent than MSU at the moment for XC so they should be winning. I think MSU might be improving a bit but they have a lot of ground to make up on the boys side. It's going to be a fun battle to watch the 2 girls teams next year.
i agree on the women, any chance they go 1-2 at nationals/ u of m returns everybody and msu returns everybody PLUS gets Kroll back....
MSU is getting talent this class tho, kettle and sims are good pick ups
I am pulling for a 1-2 girls finish!
Same here, its kind of insane how good both teams are with recruits from michigan
Not really a fan of MSU, but it's always baffled me that more kids don't line up to run for Walt Drenth, especially on the women's side. Year after year, he goes toe to toe with Mike McGuire, who is an absolute legend. Just a quick look at the last few recruiting classes for high school PR's reveals the following:
Leah O'Connor - 5:00 (now 4:34 and one of American's bright young steeple stars)
Sara Kroll - 4:48/10:50 (one of his best recruits, and turned into the Big Ten XC champ, 9:12 indoors, although only 9:26 this year and struggled at Big Ten's, injured?)
Julia Otwell - 4:55/10:50
Lindsay Clark - 4:55/10:57
Katie Landwehr - 5:02
Rachele Schulist - 4:56/10:57 (9:06 3k as a redshirt freshman)
Shelby Jackson - 10:55
Ali Wiersma - 4:49/10:23 (better than I remembered, hasn't really broken out yet)
Raquel Serna - 4:58/10:40
Allison Lunau - 4:55/10:40
Brooke Kovacic - 4:57/10:40
A pretty good group for sure, but all seem to be in that 4:55-5:00 and 10:40-10:50 range. Solid regional level runners, but no real national level girls. Any idea what they have coming in for next year?
Compare that with Michigan, who tends to get elite middle distance talent, plus wins most of the head-to-head battles with MSU over the in-state blue chippers.
Brooke Handler - 2:08/4:48
Erin Finn - 4:45/10:08/16:17 all XC all-everything
Taylor Manett - 4:50/10:26
Alex Leptich - 5:09/11:09 (has improved a ton)
Shannon Osika - 4:50/10:40 (track times worse than I remembered, but was an amazing XC runner in high school)
Danielle Pfiefer - 2:08
Jamie Phelan - 2:11/4:22
No idea what they have coming in next year, but the state of Michigan is pretty strong this year(Brasure, Leonard, Coleman,O'Neil, Olling, Barrett), and then out of this world again next year (Belf, Way, Weiler, Farrow, Patterson, Darmofal, Fuller)
On the men's side, Drenth hasn't had any stars other than Rhynard in his tenure, but has had some decent teams. Michigan has arguably underachieved comapred to their talent, especially on the track. XC has consistently been between 20-25 over the last decade or so, whereas MSU has typically been a borderline qualifying team (probably right around 30 on average, at high as around 15 and probably qualifying every other year or so).
WellItShouldBeSaid wrote:
This is mostly because of Title 9. Girls team has way more roster spots, likely more scholarships, and likely more funding.
Sorry to stray off the subject of UM track, but ignorant statements need addressed. Men choose to use their scholarships on one sport and women are smart enough to spread them around. This is not title IX, but men in power who perpetuate that one sport and sh!t on the rest.
Now, back to the topic. I am enjoying reading some very well-informed posts. Please continue.
Is it possible that like other schools Michigan doesn't really participate in indoor season? Or were they really trying and failed to make it to the finals?
it's not just about distance. if you want to build a respected program and good team you need capable sprinters and field event guys even if they aren't on par with SEC recruits. It just looks bad when you don't even have a 4x400, this isn't the NAIA
actually title IX does make it harder...im not making excuses but the women can give 18 scholarships while the men can only give 12.6
This is not hard to figure out. The Michigan women's team does a good job of spreading out their money and filling in the holes with kids who just want to go there. It is REALLY easy to get kids to UM when you offer them 75% or more....and you can do that 18 times. UM becomes a great option for kids (and there parents) when that is the case. On top of that, McGuire does a good job getting kids to dig deeper than they thought they could.
On the men's side, LaPlante inherited a team in 2009 that had just come off a Big Ten title in 2008, and several of the primary players on the that 2008 team were still in place when UM finished in the top 3 indoors and outdoors; by 2010 - LaPlante's recruiting and leadership abilities came full circle....and this is what you have left for Coach Clayton and his staff to start with.
The UM 11th place finish by the men's team is disappointing, but it should not have surprised anyone who has followed the collapse of that program. Coach Clayton will start to get it turned around, but he needs to unload some dead weight off the roster and start getting kids who want to win, rather than those who just want to wear the free gear.
That last line seems to have some truth to it. They are trimming the roster for next year. Hopefully that will motivate these cats for a better outdoor season.
On the track side - 800 and up something is fundamentally off. Maybe they need to split up the training for 800/1500, 1500/3000, 3000/5000 and 5-10K types instead of high mileage for all.
isghfsa121 wrote:
actually title IX does make it harder...im not making excuses but the women can give 18 scholarships while the men can only give 12.6
It is not the women's fault that men choose to give 85 to one sport.
Next year is supposed to be the year that the MSU Men's XC is supposed to do great things - veterans like Madrigal, Wilson, Carruthers, Rhynard are all back - plus Soter and Zuk who have improved greatly since HS. They have another guy, Benoit, who is going to be very good.
Drenth is an awesome coach - big on quality training as opposed to mileage totals, and builds upon strengths as opposed to one size fits all for his teams. He's also a hard ass and has no room for sissies, so his athletes run on a combination of fear and respect. lol.
In regards to Kroll, she's been battling injuries all winter. She has similar top-end speed to O'Connor, but O'Connor has done well because she's able to string in solid blocks of training.
Don't Forget Brian Kettle is attending MSU next year too!
So, what you are saying is that because of Title IX, the mens team at UM is struggling to compete, especially in comparison to the womens team??
stupid people wrote:
So, what you are saying is that because of Title IX, the mens team at UM is struggling to compete, especially in comparison to the womens team??
No, michigan just sucks right now at track.