Was Alan Webb really clean? (mods plz DONT DELETE nothing against the rules)

Deep thinker wrote:

List of athletics drug busts

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_athletics

Many of them were caught at OG, WC, NC, OT, Golden League, etc.

Wow. That was persuasive. You posted a link to everyone who has been busted in the history of athletics and then concluded that "many" were caught in the OG, WC, NC, OT, Golden League, etc. which then is supposed to disprove that most busts don't occur at these meets. Excellent analysis. Why don't you go back over the list and see how many weren't busted at those meets? Let me guess -- you graduated summa from college?

The only things that would point to possible doping would be his history in competitive swimming (another highly doped sport), the fact he could have taken something in H.S., and that he didn't have to continue taking them after 2007. Maybe he got a change of heart and looked at other options to stay great. Also the dude had some crazy muscles for a guy who ran 27:34.

Do I think he took Ped's. No. If he did, he stopped taking them. This scenario is possible... Took something in H.S, stopped in college, started taking better stuff before american record season, then stopped again after that. Seems a bit too hypothetical to me.

10/10 to the OP.

The only coach who could coach him was his HS Coach he had an incredible amount of success under his HS mentor! I also highly doubt that some hs coach would have the resources of drugs! I also think its a shame that Scott Raczko isn't given more credit and is able to have a career as a professional coach like Salazar because he clearly is the best middle distance coach in the nation.

I knew him reasonably well in high school. I saw his first win in a varsity outdoor race in 9th grade (a 9:30 2 mile with a terrific kick - I had run 9:20 as a ninth grader but with no terrific kick - he appeared very talented, way beyond what I did in 9th grade). I mentioned to his coach at this meet that I thought he was a bona fide 4 minute mile talent, and his coach, without any sense of puffery, agreed.

The owner of the local running store, a knowledgeable running guy, confirmed my opinions, feeling even more strongly about his potential. I met Alan over the next few years, and there is no way he was on PED's in high school. He did remind me of a thoroughbred, coltish in demeanor, and a bit high strung and passionate. Hardly unusual for a young miler, and indeed, likely positive attributes for a middle distance runner. Alan had wheels, really unusual speed in high school, and he was whippier back then, relying less on power than he did a few years hence.

I do remember the week before his 3:53 race, and his coach and team were expecting a sub-four performance. I think they believed the 3:53 was a bit of a surprise and perhaps not easy for him to replicate immediately, but, heck, it was in a race with El G in great conditions, and he was dragged along. No PED's - either - it just wasn't the case. He was a middle class kid from a good family in suburban Reston - that's who he was.

I wish him well, and I wish his young family well too. My feeling is that he is now an ecstatic father of his daughter, as he well should be. He has a lot to be proud of.

People who dope don't normally stop ever after they have been caught

rojo wrote:

Yes drugs = consistency. People on steroids recover way faster, etc. Everyone knows this.

Doesn't the associated bulking negate the benefits to middle-distance runners. Check out Cartman!

I think that it was the Propecia that he may have taken when he went bald. It suppresses Testosterone and increases Estrogen production (Look it up). He went from bald back to a full head of hair in one year. Stranger things have happened! It was unknowingly doing the "negative" doping....

Cal_Poly_Dad wrote:

I think that it was the Propecia that he may have taken when he went bald. It suppresses Testosterone and increases Estrogen production (Look it up). He went from bald back to a full head of hair in one year. Stranger things have happened! It was unknowingly doing the "negative" doping....

He was unknowingly doing "Negative" doping.

Randy - Thanks for the link. I don't think it was conclusive if it was hair transplants, regrowth, or ???. I personally think Webb was 100% clean. I was just speculating on another potential cause. I would be been really happy to have ended my career with the list of PBs that Alan has ammassed.

There is no bulking effect. Seriously look at some of the long distance guys who have tested positive for steroids. None of them have huge muscles.

Randy Oldman wrote:

rojo wrote:

Yes drugs = consistency. People on steroids recover way faster, etc. Everyone knows this.

Doesn't the associated bulking negate the benefits to middle-distance runners. Check out Cartman!

Remember how Flagpole said that Webb could never beat Ritz at 10000m, how he went on and on about it? Yeah, that was awesome. Good job Flag!

Pedalow wrote:

Maybe he left AS because AS does not condone PEDs.

OMG! I laughed so hard that I nearly coughed up a lung.

HS kids start using PEDs very early, even 9th grade.

Football players use steroids as early as 8th grade to gain an edge. Strongly suspect the pattern of perofrmances here suggest PED use from an early age.

Not possible for a natural athlete to run 3:53 at 18 and be unable to come close 10 + years later. This is PEDs until proven otherwise.

BooRadley wrote:

Not possible for a natural athlete to run 3:53 at 18 and be unable to come close 10 + years later. This is PEDs until proven otherwise.

Whew. Luckily for Webb, that's not what happened, seeing as in 2011 he ran 3:37 for 1500m, which is VERY CLOSE to the 3:53 mile he ran ten years earlier.

Now, Jim Ryun on the other hand...where was he 10+ years after his 3:55.3?

As a person who observed Alan in the shower, I would have to say from my point of view he appeared to be very clean by the time he walked out.

Great topic and of course I find it interesting that Webbs name would come up for a doping discussion when is the last time or who was the last guy to be busted for doping at the American Distance Runners? You think Ritz, Meb, Hall, Rupp, ??? we're not talking sprinters in which doping is all over the place, we're talking middle distance runners. None of these guys ever dope or even questioned about their integrity because as good as they are- we all know its all hard work, dedication, and sacrifice. Even Webb is and always has been clean. Same with the Greats like Ryun, Lindgren, Mills, Pre, Shorter, Rogers, Salazar, Moore, and Kardong. Can you even name the last elite American Male Distance runner to be busted? because I certainly can not.

Not true. 2012 Olympic women's 1500 champ Aslı Çakır Alptekin had a 402 pb at age 25 heading into the Olympics. A good pro who suddently ran 356.

Rashid ramzi was a 344 guy at age 22, a 339 guy at 23 and a 330 guy at age 24.

Lance Armstrong was a great one day cyclist who coudln't finish the tour - suddenly he was winning it.

This is easy. Alptekin ran a grand total of 2 meets in Europe before the 2012 Olympis and they were within the span of a week of each other (cycle on, then off for a week).

Look at how often any of those Russia women like Yelena Soboleva, who were all busted for cheating on their urine tests, ran in the summer European circuit.

Yes drugs = consistency. People on steroids recover way faster, etc. Everyone knows this.

Yes if they stopped being on drugs, then they like normal runners would be inconsistent. But Webb was widely inconsistent way before 2007.