when I broke 5 the first time I could NOT handle 12 400s in 75 in one session let alone 12 of them sub 80, even if i were to have had substantial rest, thats why I dont see how 12 at mile pace is normal? I would believe 4-6 maybe 8
when I broke 5 the first time I could NOT handle 12 400s in 75 in one session let alone 12 of them sub 80, even if i were to have had substantial rest, thats why I dont see how 12 at mile pace is normal? I would believe 4-6 maybe 8
socal cush wrote:
for what it's worth, 12x400 was a staple workout for me, with the following format; i once did 3x (4x400), 200m jog between 400s, 1 lap between each of the three sets. my 200m jog was likely closer to 50-60 seconds, with the one lap rest close to 1:45, though i'm just guessing. i did all 12 400s in 56, and i was only a 355 guy, so morceli's workout does not seem impossible, even with the short rest, and especially with frequent visits to italian pharmacies...
At first I was assuming you're a 3:55 1500m runner! That would suggest (especially if you're a miler or more long distance orientated runner) your 800m wouldn't be quicker than 1:52, so that would be 12 400s faster than 800m pace.
Even if you're a 3:55 miler it's hard to believe. It would suggest that 56 was about half way between 800 and mile pace.
Why the EFF did the mods delete my post????
I posted an actual first hand account of a workout that would indicate what the OP mentioned is very believable.
Fvck you mods
Here it is again -
Kevin Sullivan posted not too long ago that in the year 2000 the canadians and moroccans were at the same training camp just prior to the Olympic Games. He watched El G do a workout that was 8x400 in 53-54 with 45 sec recovery. He had 2 rabbits for the workout. The first took him to 200m and the second to 300m.
So the workout the OP mentioned is very believable.
The equivalent Physiological workout To this is not 12 x 400. It would be 12 by 55 seconds at roughly mile pace With 40 seconds rest. If you are on EPO I think you can manage
letsrunrunnerrunner wrote:
when I broke 5 the first time I could NOT handle 12 400s in 75 in one session let alone 12 of them sub 80, even if i were to have had substantial rest, thats why I dont see how 12 at mile pace is normal? I would believe 4-6 maybe 8
In the case of the Bekele workout it was only 8. Though also 8 200s
Not sure what to say about you not being able to do that workout, even with lengthy rest. Even in 5:10 shape doing 400s @ 75 with a long rest was not hard for me. 2:00 gets close to a full recovery from that.
Keep in mind Kenenisa was an endurance oriented athlete with good mileage, and this probably able to handle a greater volume of work.
Coming at this debate from the other end of the track spectrum, as a sprinter I did 12x400 once a year and it was always the worst day of my life. Goal pace was to average sub-60 across the whole workout, with a 4 minute rest between each 400 (hey, as a sprinter that's a short recovery, haha!) Even at my peak of physical fitness I couldn't ever quite manage to get the average under 60, and I had a 45-second 400m PR. None of the distance runners who more frequently do these big 12x400 type workouts could run 45 in a single 400m race effort, but on the other hand myself and no other sprinters I know could have ever recovered AT ALL in 40 seconds (or anything remotely close) on that kind of monster workout! What an interesting difference in physiology when facing the same basic workout.
Coming at this debate from the other end of the track spectrum, as a sprinter I did 12x400 once a year and it was always the worst day of my life. Goal pace was to average sub-60 across the whole workout, with a 4 minute rest between each 400 (hey, as a sprinter that's a short recovery, haha!) Even at my peak of physical fitness I couldn't ever quite manage to get the average under 60, and I had a 45-second 400m PR. None of the distance runners who more frequently do these big 12x400 type workouts could run 45 in a single 400m race effort, but on the other hand myself and no other sprinters I know could have ever recovered AT ALL in 40 seconds (or anything remotely close) on that kind of monster workout! What an interesting difference in physiology when facing the same basic workout.
Coming at this debate from the other end of the track spectrum, as a sprinter I did 12x400 once a year and it was always the worst day of my life. Goal pace was to average sub-60 across the whole workout, with a 4 minute rest between each 400 (hey, as a sprinter that's a short recovery, haha!) Even at my peak of physical fitness I couldn't ever quite manage to get the average under 60, and I had a 45-second 400m PR. None of the distance runners who more frequently do these big 12x400 type workouts could run 45 in a single 400m race effort, but on the other hand myself and no other sprinters I know could have ever recovered AT ALL in 40 seconds (or anything remotely close) on that kind of monster workout! What an interesting difference in physiology when facing the same basic workout.
Questions2 wrote:
The equivalent Physiological workout To this is not 12 x 400. It would be 12 by 55 seconds at roughly mile pace With 40 seconds rest. If you are on EPO I think you can manage
a good point many people overlook and probably continue to overlook. not just about distance
Just thought I'd add something, for what it's worth.
I was in Addis Ababa back in 2007, and was able to go in the track stadium and watch part of K. Bekele's workout. It has been a while, but I believe he ran around 8 400s consistently in the 53-54 second range, with a few rabbits. His rest time was much more than 40 seconds, more like 90 seconds to 2 minutes.
That was the only time I've seen him run in person, and the smooth effortlessness of his stride was really incredible.
the epo helps
just sayin...
MariusBakken wrote:
Hell, El G was doing his 1000m reps in 2:30, 10 of em with short recovery. THAT'S insane.
Not really. You have to look at all of this related to actual race pace. In peak shape I could do 6-7 1000s with fairly short recoveries in 2:31-32. With his combo of 1500 stamina and 5k endurance, that sounds about right.
Also keep in mind :
When world class runners are in peak shape they also have incredibly fast recovery abilities in between intervals in workouts. It is part of the whole system being so well-tuned.
all the best,
Marius Bakken
Finally, someone who actually knows what he's talking about on this subject. Thanks Marius.
Gush wrote:
Guppy wrote:Don't believe the stuff you read about pro workouts. In Paul Tergat's book it says he did something like 20x400m in 53 seconds each with 1 minute jog rest between at 8000ft elevation. I have read equally ridiculous claims about other pros. Don't believe it.
Trust you to get it wrong as usual Guppy. The Tergat workout was 56 seconds at 6000ft
That's why I said "something like." I'm just going off of memory from when I read the book about 7 years ago. It's still a ridiculous claim.