When should a 3:38 guy give up the dream?

"just give up" great attitude

i can speak to this from experience, though technically i was a 3:37.9 guy--hopefully you won't quibble...

i ran 337/38 (or a mile equivalent) from 91-96, enjoying pretty good health and racing opportunities, so if i were going to run faster, i had my chances. the upside of this is that the majority of "what ifs" were put to rest. if i were injured a lot, or got sick before a few of the national championships, perhaps i would have found reason to continue, but alas, i lacked good excuses...

in '94, many of my training partners/traveling teammates had been having injury/health issues of their own, so training and traveling had become a little less enjoyable. to touch on rojo's points, the one thing that kept me going then when i might have quit was the chance to compete in one more olympic trials (to eliminate another potential "what if" scenario). even though i had a poor showing in the trials in '96, i'm glad i saw it through. so, i think the timing of your decision matters...

also, by '96 my wife was pregnant with our 2nd child. being gone 4-6 weeks every summer, while still mostly fun, was getting a little old. being an ankle sprain away from major income loss is tough for a family man.

finally, i may have been an example of a miler's brain in a 5k body. this is a what if that i never pursued, but don't particularly regret. while i may have had a better chance at breaking into the top 5 americans--and this would be purely speculative--it's still not likely that i was going to beat bob kennedy, and there's no reason to believe i'd have a better transition from 1500 to 5k than jim spivey (who was 4th in the 5k in '96). at the end of the day, i was a top ten guy, but probably not a top 5 guy in either event had i continued beyond '96.

health, enjoyment, timing, moving up, and family should all be factored into your decision. if i were single, i would have been tempted--at least for complacency's sake--to compete for another four years (i was 29 in '96)...

hope this helps, and there's always masters competitions waiting for you :)...

In my mind you shouldn't give up. That's what is wrong with American distance running in this day and age. You used to have businessmen burning sub-2:40 marathons in boston. Now less than fifty make it under. A 3:38 guy should keep going, if he really loves it. He can be competitive in b level internationals and local races. So keep going we need more people like that, good not great runners who are successful at the local level.

rojo wrote:

If somoene wants to do it, I'll pay you a small amount. Email me. It would make a good article.

I don't want to do the whole thing but I was very curious so here are the top 2 in each modern running event on the men's side only.

This is very easy to figure out, you can go this website, click an event, and sort every American Olympian ever in that event by age:

100m

1912

Peter Gerhardt

34

2008

Darvis Patton

30

8

200m

1912

Peter Gerhardt

34

2 h5 r2/3

2000

Floyd Heard

34

6 h2 r3/4

(Gerhardt older by months)

400m

2000

Antonio Pettigrew

32

AC

(drug cheat, RIP)

1964

Mike Larrabee

30

1

Gold

(and 2 golds!)

800m

1920

Bryan Sprott

32

6

2000

Rich Kenah

30

6 h1 r1/3

1500m

1984

Steve Scott

28

10

(…then made another one after)

1936

Gene Venzke

28

9

(Scott older by months)

5000m

1988

Sydney Maree

32

5

(I assume he never competed for RSA)

1996

Matt Giusto

29

9 h1 r1/3

10000m

1988

Bruce Bickford

31

18

1984

Paul Cummings

30

9 h2 r1/2

Marathon

1924

Billy Churchill

38

23

1964

Peter McArdle

35

23

110m hurdles

1996

Eugene Swift

31

6

2004

Duane Ross

31

AC h1 r3/4

(Swift older by months)

400m hurdles

1992

David Patrick

32

8

1988

André Phillips

29

1

Gold

3000m steeplechase

1972

Mike Manley

30

10 h4 r1/2

1952

Horace Ashenfelter

29

1

Gold

(gold and then made another one)

Notes:

-There are lots more historical events, but most are really old like 5 mile, 60m, etc. But the people listed are true first-timers: they didn't compete in ANY event in any previous games. The relays themselves would probably have some older first-time competitors in it.

-I thought years like 1948 and 1984 would have way more (as the US did not compete in the preceding Olympics), but there aren't many.

-Interesting factoid: Willie Davenport made five straight Olympics - 1964-76 in the 110 hurdles, then 1980 in the bobsled (age 38)! Something for sprinters to consider before giving up the dream.

-Some old first-time Olympians competed quite well, a couple golds mentioned in there.

callsemhowIseesem wrote:

3:38 college guys are a dime a dozen, and they can never find shoe contracts. That's barely an Olympic B standard.

A dime a dozen might exaggerating... Only 2 actually ran 3:38 last year, maybe 5 more could have. Ryan Hill was one of them, 3:38.26 PR from 2012.

David Torrence ran 3:40 (and 13:59, 1:49) in college. Took him 2 years to beat his college PR with 3:38. Now he has a 3:33 at age 28. I think a 3:38 collegian is in pretty good standing.

rojo wrote:But if a guy ran 3:35 at 23 and is running 3:38 at 27. I don't see why he'd continue unless he loves it or is making bank.

Although not 100% on this line reminded me of Kyle Merber.

merbed wrote:

rojo wrote:But if a guy ran 3:35 at 23 and is running 3:38 at 27. I don't see why he'd continue unless he loves it or is making bank.

Although not 100% on this line reminded me of Kyle Merber.

Maybe you were thinking of AJ Acosta or something?

I quit playing professional lacrosse at 27. Focused on my career and now I run/train almost everyday.

It's hard to justify giving up at any point, but once you do, you realize that there's other things in life that you can focus on (eg. education, work, hobbies, passions, social life)

bump to the 5000, you have good speed and you'll be able to compete in the last lap or two in the big meets... go to vigil to train also! best coach in the world!

notme wrote:

When should a 3:38 1500m guy give up and start a career outside of running?

Stay here. Stay as loooonng as you can. You've gotta cherish it. You do... You do.

I quit after running 3:44 at 22 to pursue a lucrative career opportunity. It's not the same speed as you're asking about, but it's a somewhat similar story. I had to move, leave my training group, and try to manage on my own. I lasted training about 3 months before hanging up the spikes. I don't regret the choice I made, but I do wonder "what if?". I think a big part of that was the fact that I was improving 3-5 seconds every year prior to that.

I'm a 3:38 /800 guy

livinh the dream

Most if not all, 1500 guys run their career best by their mid-20s. If he's at that age or older and hasn't achieved his goal it's unlikely he's going to get faster and achieve it. Runners can maintain that time for 5 years, maybe longer. Poster doesn't say what his dream is but if it involves getting faster odds are it's not going to happen.

In 2012 Stephen Pifer ran 3:38 and 2:18 for the marathon. Pretty god range.

Kids: Christian Cushing-murray is a tragic example of what can happen to you if you are an intelligent, emotionally healthy individual with a realistic appraisal of your own abilities and a life outside of running.

Don't let this happen to you.

Peter Elliot ran 3:32 with a full time job and won Olympics Silver

There are plenty of people training like an elite but holding down a full time job struggling to break 4 why should he give up anything

As for getting a senior position well form my experience they have longer holidays and do a lot working from home. That's at least how it is over here!

rojo wrote:

Someone should do the research. Oldest Americans to make their first track events in each event 800-marathon men and women.

Could you repeat that in English?

Is this Erik VanIngen?