Wang Junxia 1993 records

As evidence:

"The National Games are considered very important for athletes as winning signifies financial benefits and public accolades. This meant that Chinese national team rowers did not compete at this year’s World Rowing Championships as it was too close to their National Games."

Since you can't view youtube (without a workaround, anyway):

It is a more recent screenshot (as cctv.com will reveal) but the standard CCTV logo can be seen in the upper left of the frame.

The video hasn't gotten around because it was shown on tv in China twenty years ago. I don't think you judge them by the standard we have in other parts of the world that home video tape would have been readily available (which is how youtube has its current world record collection, dating back to that era). What clips have been shown in more recent times are on youtube (brief snips from interviews with Wang and Qu).

Why lack of push to obtain a full copy of the 1500m, 3000m and 10000m heats and finals? I would speculate it's because it's not in doubt that the women actually ran those times for those distances (foreign timers, foreign press observers can corroborate) and because it's also not in doubt that the marks are completely illegitimate. You mentioned Paula's name earlier. I doubt she has much interest in watching Wang for 29 and a half minutes put the 10000m world record out of reach, just a year after Paula defeated her at the World Junior Cross Country.

CCTV has the rights to this video. If you're in China and near Beijing, you can try to find someone there sympathetic to your request (I'd recommend coming at it from a point of adulation and not suspicion) but I would guess it's a byzantine of bureaucracy there and that they would only consider a request from someone very high up.

Radcliffe = doper

That date is incorrect. A lot of times, older photos get credited to the month and year (sometimes just the year) and that defaults it to the first day.

Notice this photo:

It says Mar 1, 1987 but we know that the World Indoor Championships that year were held from Mar 6-8 that year.

See the end of the clip.

This isn't exactly the same as putting a Hyundai over your head. Don't forget: a different set of women did it again in the 1500m four years later in Shanghai.

I can see how the date credited on the photo could be wrong.

I could also see how a lot of things credited were wrong.

Like maybe even the name of the photographer.

The video evidence is so scant it's amazing.

The fact that the next really fast (but still slower) race was also in China doesn't help much.

And it wasn't 4 records in 6 days again.

And we don't have the same illogical splits (going in 3:32 pace).

But still no video of that 1997 race either.

Jeff Wigan,

I get that original VHS tapes of this gig are probably in short supply, but surely the CCTV should be parading these videos around like nobodies business. National pride, the shadow of doubt and pure intrigue surrounding the games should all have encouraged the release of the full races.

Unfortunately, I don't have much sway in Beijing so I won't be making any inquiries there.

...as for "Adulation, not suspicion". It's as much the former as the latter anyway. I want to see a women run the fastest ever 3k time within the fastest ever 10k time.

Can we not make a request on behalf of the forum to somewhere?

Seyta wrote:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/wang-junxia-world-record-holder-in-womens-10-000-and-3-000-news-photo/51604889?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532&cid=4157&lid=12413

Junxia Wang sure had an awesome build for a runner.

First you ask "How did she just knock 42 seconds off of the 10,000 WR?

Then you ask, how did she close the last 5,000 and 3,000m under world record pace for those respective distances while she was already on 10K record pace?

Then ask how she could recover 3 days later to run under the 1500m world record? And at an opening lap that was as fast as the men run? And presume there was a 1500m prelim in between.

And then the very next day, in a prelim where she just needs to make it to the final, she takes 10 seconds off of the 3000m WR (which was a championship event at the time).

And the very next day after that, knocks another 6 seconds off of the new record, making it a 16 second drop of a 3000m record?

And a total of 5 women went under the previous record in one race?

All of this in less than a week?

Do you think any male runner that had either a 3:50 PR or a 29:31 PR could do all of that in one week?

The OP was looking for some credible details from foreigners at the meet or that saw the complete races.

20 years later that is getting harder to find.

We will all be dead before these records are broken.

bumfeeler wrote:

Can we not make a request on behalf of the forum to somewhere?

It would be to CCTV.

toro wrote:

Do you think any male runner that had either a 3:50 PR or a 29:31 PR could do all of that in one week?

It would be taxing to say the least, but chemical assistance would go along way to helping him recover in between efforts. Remember that male hormones are going to have a much more pronounced effect on women than on men.

toro wrote:

The OP was looking for some credible details from foreigners at the meet or that saw the complete races.

20 years later that is getting harder to find.

The New York Times's correspondent was there. Track and Field News had a correspondent there. Omega's timers from Switzerland were there. They ran the required laps. The track wasn't short. The men ran about what they usually run.

toro wrote:

We will all be dead before these records are broken.

The 10000m is beatable by women running today. I'm much less optimistic about the 1500m and 3000m.

Star TV did a special on this , given that none of the posters here have ever been to China or Hong Kong where any of this would be easy to source. If its so important , climb on a plane spend the money and time , do your research and report back to us. Everything it stated here is 100% speculation , zero facts...

I'll speak from my 1500m experience.

When I was in 3:50 shape, I would have been very uncomfortable going out in 42s for the first 300 and could not have run 3:50 with a start like that.

When I was in 3:42 shape I could have. So that 3:50 effort was worth well under 3:50 if run efficiently.

She closed a 29:31 in 8:20. Nonsense.

8:12 in a prelim? Why would you even try that?

Assuming the best drugs ever are used, I don't understand the inefficient splits and the WR prelim.

And considering that this is the best feat in the history of athletics I would like someone to come up and give a first hand account of what they saw, rather than someone saying they had a correspondent there or Omega is a trustworthy company.

Let the correspondents and the human timers speak for themselves.

Toro - your rambling has been addressed. Omega officiated and certified the times. TFN vouched for the performances.

The actual performances are beyond doubt.

Drugs? Certainly. They were as clean as the ethiopians of today.

Those records are a sick joke. I can't believe the IAAF ratified them -- how much money must have changed hands to bring that about? Junxia 3:51, 8:12, 8:06 and 29:31 within six days, then the track is torn up? She never runs faster than 30:50 outside of China? Plus the other Chinese women from those 1993 National Games in Beijing who ran insanely fast (the only 4 from this day to go under 8:21) and never did squat otherwise...someone should be placed under a huge anus and crapped on for this

Drugs , pure speculation , to classify all Ethiopian's and Chinese women as drug users is like you saying your not racist profiling and locking your car doors when you see a black man cross the street in front of you.

"then that you'd know it's very likely that they values"

Really?

She has a facebook fan page!

2:47 for last K of the 10000, that's 27:55 pace folks

yeah right wrote:

2:47 for last K of the 10000, that's 27:55 pace folks

That's only 67 pace for 400 meters. Many women have kicked sub 60 the last lap.

Next you'll extrapolate Bekele's 52 to a 10k.

Pisspot Pete wrote:

Those records are a sick joke. I can't believe the IAAF ratified them -- how much money must have changed hands to bring that about? Junxia 3:51, 8:12, 8:06 and 29:31 within six days, then the track is torn up? She never runs faster than 30:50 outside of China? Plus the other Chinese women from those 1993 National Games in Beijing who ran insanely fast (the only 4 from this day to go under 8:21) and never did squat otherwise...someone should be placed under a huge anus and crapped on for this

I agree that the records are a joke. However, I do not agree that the track itself was a part of this. Many people claim that either the track was short or the race was started on the wrong lines.

The track being torn up is not proof that there was something "wrong with it".

The Worker's Stadium in Beijing was torn up after 1993 because China made a (failed) bid to host the 2000 Olympics. Sure, you can say that this is simply an excuse.

However, the Worker's Stadium was also used to host the 1990 Asian Games, which involved participation of dozens of Asian nations. Considering legions of foreigners experienced nothing strange just 3 years earlier, and none of them seemed to perform out-of-the-world back then, it's very unlikely that the track itself is the culprit behind the extraordinary times.

Moreover, in the SAME meet, the MEN did not experience the same spectacular performances. If there was a short track, then do you really think the men were so bad that many couldn't even break their own PRs while the women were shattering world records.

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As for the idea that the races were started on the "wrong line".

In the segments of the video, it appears that they start and finish exactly where a 1500m race would start and finish.

Incidentally, these are only excerpts, and what goes on for the duration of the race is up for speculation. However, earlier in this thread, I already posted several links indicating that western individuals, both photographers and news correspondents, were present at the games.

If the women actually started on the wrong line, or did something illegal in the middle of the race, don't you think the guys reporting on Track and Field, and the guys who have a career that involves taking pictures at high profile track meets would NOTICE???

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I'm just as suspicious as the next guy about drugs being involved in this, but there are just too many things that don't add up for there to have been something wrong with the actual track.