dkny64 wrote:
I really hope you're trolling, because in that case you're obnoxious but you aren't actually affecting the life of an adolescent.
If this is legit, please, grow up and support your child in his pursuit of something he's passionate about. And while you're at it, check out
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4428533to learn about how much some people progress from slow starts + how brave some people are in the face of adversity.
+1
joalturn wrote:
Speed matters. How fast is he running those miles? If he spent a summer dicking around at 8 min pace the results aren't surprising.
This is usually the culprit.
dkny64 wrote:
Dad - with bad genes wrote:Son is a 10th grader-second year of xc. Last year - Year 1 (first year of running) went about 19:15 on average for 5k on about 35 mpw. This year after a summer of 12 weeks of about 40 miles base and a season under his coach (about 35 miles per week with a speed workout or two mixed in) is now about 18:45 for 5k. He is frustrated that he is not faster. He is the third runner on his varsity (not a very good program and a very small school). He would eagerly build up to 70-80 mile weeks over the next two years and a summer of doubles if he thought it would have a major impact. But if the gain is just 15-30 seconds per 5k then why bother.18:xx is still 18:xx. At what point is a runner working hard enough to determine that he really has limited talent? Any thoughts?
I really hope you're trolling, because in that case you're obnoxious but you aren't actually affecting the life of an adolescent.
If this is legit, please, grow up and support your child in his pursuit of something he's passionate about. And while you're at it, check out
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4428533to learn about how much some people progress from slow starts + how brave some people are in the face of adversity.
Thank-you for providing the link to that thread. There ought to be a holiday in his name here at Letsrun. Remembering Will at least once a year would do us all good.
I'm an XC coach, and I've worked with a good number of athletes.
On the LR boards, there is an almost reflexive belief in equal trainability for everyone. Personally, I think it's because this board is demographically skewed towards very talented runners, and talented runners like believing that their success is due to hard work more than genes.
The gods of running did not align talent with desire, nor did they align desire with trainability or durability. Your son may want it badly, but may have been born with genes like mine--solid, but not spectacular. YOUR job as a dad is to SUPPORT your son.
I've seen it work both ways--he may physically mature, lay on some miles, and drop 16:xx's his senior year. Or he may struggle to improve as he lays on the miles and stay in the 18:xx's. On our team right now I have two athletes who train side-by-side who embody this phenomenon. They ran together all summer, dramatically different results. They have done virtually identical training since 8th grade when they both had similar times. One runner is a mid-16'er. The other is an high 17'er. Some bodies are just different than others.
Be PROUD as a dad you have raised a 16-year old capable of such commitment, and SUPPORT whatever results come from that commitment. DO you know how few of today's kids can see tough training goals through like your son can? When he is an adult, this discipline will suit him well--very well. Unless, that is, he internalizes a narrative that nothing he ever does is good enough, which he WILL pick up if you give him that message.
He is scared to race. My kid would keep up with workouts and run a 6 min mile with one group in middle school and then run with her friends in races and chalk up a 25 for 5k as a freshman
. Totally scared to lay it on the linw
I'd say build a base of 60 mpw in singles this winter. then in the summer build a base of 70-80 mpw with 2-4 doubles. Increasing mileage does wonders for most runners. Also, diet is important, make sure to have a low fat, high carb diet, with plenty of fruits and vegies. Also, get as much as sleep as possible. More you sleep, more you recover, and more you recover more you overcompensate from the stress done in training.
Maybe the coach isn't very good. Doesn't do the right workouts at the right time or does too much - too little of certain training paces.
Anyway you just want your son out there enjoying himself and learning about training, goal setting, and competition.
You're welcome. I think an annual Will Steele day on letsrun is a great idea. WeJo met Will, and I'll bet he would like the idea as well. In my experience the best way to get his attention is to e-mail him - weldonjohnson @ letsrun.com.
An odd and moving coincidence: the plaque on the Ryan Shay memorial bench in Central Park reads, "It is necessary to dig deep within oneself to discover the hidden grain of steel called will."
dpmrunner wrote:
Another Option wrote:I've got a feeling that this is more important to you than it is to him. Some kids start with more ability than others. Some start with more desire than others. I've had many athletes that have plenty of one without the other. Ability can be developed in all runners to a great extent. I agree that improvement from low 19's to high 18's is unremarkable, especially for the amount of preparation described.
I have found many kids are willing to train, yet the don't have a great desire to achieve. I've also had a great number of kids flip the switch and go from mediocre to very accomplished because they decided at a deep level they wanted to achieve. Training hard is required but it's not enough.
There are lots of great things he will take away from the sport even if never flips the switch. Never assume his lack of accomplishment is due to a lack of ability unless he has some obvious disability. Give him time. He will continue laying the foundation for a breakthrough whether it ever occurs or not. Never give up on him. As long as he is enjoying the sport, support all of his efforts without judging the outcomes. Let him find the reason to achieve on his own schedule.
^This. A ton of common sense here!
^This. I second! I need to hear it regarding my daughter's running as much as the OP needs to hear it. Athletics is hard ("athlos" in Greek means "struggle") and until someone finds that inner desire to push through difficulty, accomplishment will always lag. But, as this poster says, much is gained simply by participating to whatever degree the athlete can muster. If we're honest, just about all of us have to admit that we've never left it all on the field. But it's a great thing to confront our limits and, hopefully, extend them.
RacingtheCantaloupe wrote:
I'm an XC coach, and I've worked with a good number of athletes.
On the LR boards, there is an almost reflexive belief in equal trainability for everyone. Personally, I think it's because this board is demographically skewed towards very talented runners, and talented runners like believing that their success is due to hard work more than genes.
The gods of running did not align talent with desire, nor did they align desire with trainability or durability. Your son may want it badly, but may have been born with genes like mine--solid, but not spectacular. YOUR job as a dad is to SUPPORT your son.
I've seen it work both ways--he may physically mature, lay on some miles, and drop 16:xx's his senior year. Or he may struggle to improve as he lays on the miles and stay in the 18:xx's. On our team right now I have two athletes who train side-by-side who embody this phenomenon. They ran together all summer, dramatically different results. They have done virtually identical training since 8th grade when they both had similar times. One runner is a mid-16'er. The other is an high 17'er. Some bodies are just different than others.
Be PROUD as a dad you have raised a 16-year old capable of such commitment, and SUPPORT whatever results come from that commitment. DO you know how few of today's kids can see tough training goals through like your son can? When he is an adult, this discipline will suit him well--very well. Unless, that is, he internalizes a narrative that nothing he ever does is good enough, which he WILL pick up if you give him that message.
Lol.
joalturn wrote:
If he spent a summer dicking around at 8 min pace the results aren't surprising.
Yeah. He'll end up as slow as Geoffrey Mutai.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5476122What's it got to do with you?
Leave it to the runner and his coach
otter wrote:
joalturn wrote:Speed matters. How fast is he running those miles? If he spent a summer dicking around at 8 min pace the results aren't surprising.
This is usually the culprit.
i trained at 8:30 pace all summer long and finally broke into the 15's with that work. maybe in college, but in high school, it's a great system.
I wouldn't want to run fast either if my dad was an overbearing dick.
Ok? wrote:
I wouldn't want to run fast either if my dad was an overbearing dick.
Hey douchebag, he is a high school sophomore running 35 mpw. It is not like he is getting run into the ground by his coaches or "overbearing" parents. I'm not sure about your parenting philosophy, but my son is only 15 and I am surely going to be involved in the things that are important to him in his life.
He really seems to enjoy the sport, but is frustrated that (in his mind) he does not seem to get out of it what he puts in. His coach seems like a really good guy (but a new coach and not a runner by background). In season he follows the coaches program. Practices seem easy to me (but its been 3 decades since I ran xc in HS)and are geared towards the level of the average runner. The program is small and not very competitive. The fifth guy on varsity is a 20:30 level. The varisty all run the same workouts. He's never been injured, eats well, sleeps plenty, and looks like a 15 year old LD runner.
He comes to me and talks about really liking the sport, and has strong desires of getting better. I come on LR and it talks about miles being the golden path to success. I was just looking for some informed opinions on whether he could resonably hope for material improvements if he were to really amp up the miles considering the arc of his progression over the past few years. His xc season is only 3 months long and spring track is only 2 months long. The rest of the year he is between seasons (winter or summer) where he is left alone to figure it out. It is entirely up to him as to what he will eventually do. I am not the one running the workouts. I am just trying to get some insight as to what to expect so that he can make an informed decision.
I haven't read the thread, but if the question is if it is worth your kid's time to run more...well of course it is. We need to teach our kids to reach for the ring, to work hard, and how to deal with failure if it doesn't work.
This is a key lesson sports teaches - do the work now with the hopes/expectations it will all pay off. And how to deal if it doesn't.
yeah, saying damn my son is slow on a public message board is the right way to get involved, first class parenting right there folks.
ukathleticcoach wrote:
What's it got to do with you?
Leave it to the runner and his coach
This is maybe beside the point of this thread, but why assume that the coach knows what he's doing? My decades-old memories of track coaches being out-of-season and out-of-shape football coaches might be a thing of the past, but I'm sure there are many coaches who don't rise above the level of being middling.
Then, what does a parent do? Teach the son/daughter to "respect authority" and "be a team player" while watching his/her potential go untapped and possibly his/her enthusiasm die out?
Ok now you made it clear you are not an over bearing parent but one who wants to help his son succeed in something he wants to succeed in.
My advice is to find a local group of athletes with a decent coach for younger athletes outside the school system and let him train with them. You do not need to be doing huge mileage at 15 years old but some good quality workouts old help.
Alternative is to go and see the coach and offer some advice on better training for the high school track team
Either its a troll or a bad dad.
If its not a troll, the subject line comment about his son, even granted that its done here in a joking manner, reflects a type of thinking that the son will pick up on.
I guess to prefer to think its just a troll. I dunno though.