Do you think Alberto would be competitive with the Kenyans if he was a young runner today???

xenonscreams wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and say yes, he would be, because he had what I think a lot of Americans lack (the will to focus solely on running to the exclusion of literally everything else and the balls to risk totally falling apart to win a race).

Hardloper wrote:Huh? Don't we have tons of guys who do that? Didn't Ritz and Teg both blow up last marathon?

True, we are pretty good at blowing up, especially Ritz who keeps repeatedly starting marathons unprepared for the distance under Salazar's coaching.

But Xenon is right. If Athletics Kenya held an Olympic trials marathon in Berlin, there would be 50 guys together through the half in 1:01:xx, with finishes from 2:03 to 2:40 to DNF.

US marathoners, with the exception of Meb and occasionally Hall (when he races), simply do not race to win. Salazar did. (Although he was racing far, far, far weaker competition.)

PhoneixRunner wrote:

He is better than them. Salazar has nothing to prove. Anyone who can duel in the sun. And nearly die twice for running belongs in he hall of fame. No questions asked.

One of my friends in college almost die twice from running and he was like a 13:5x guy. I don't think he belonged in the hall of fame.

And rupp certified guy, Ryun was clearly a better miler than Kip Keino, even if he lost a race to him. Hicham El Guerrouj was likewise a better miler than Noah Ngeny.

pjoscely wrote:

Funny to read this post. I saw Al Sal race Tanzania's Suleiman Nyambui (silver in the 5,000 meters behind Yifter at '80 Olympics in Moscow) back in early 80's at the Melrose Games. They were together until the last few laps when Nyambui got a ahead and held it to the end. I imagine pretty much the same would happen nowadays if AL Sal went up the Kenyans in the marathon.

AlSal beat Nyambui in the 1978 NCAA XC. He also beat Michael Musyoki, James Munyala, and James Rotich.

female logic, powerful

Critical Thinking wrote:

Ryun was clearly a better miler than Kip Keino

Whatever makes you feel better.

Critical Thinking wrote:The stupidest post ever on here is your sincere belief that Jim Ryun had a 3:24 in him.

dumb thinking is not to examine the facts

a 2'46.6 finish on a chewed up dirt track in worst smog city in western world in 95F heat & only ran it hard in last 300m shows how much better he was then anyone before or after

here is his nearest "challenger" in history, in another "tactical" race who ran the last 1200 pretty much flat-out & "only" managed 2'47.0

Yes.

I think Alberto Salazar would have found legal ways to enhance his performance, because he's both a researcher and a runner.

I'm sorry ventolin, I shouldn't bust your balls. I agree that Ryun certainly could have gone significantly faster, even if not as fast as you believe. Your posts are always interesting, and you are clearly a knowledgeable student of the sport, even if I sometimes find some of your claims outlandish.

here are brief highlights of his 3'33.1wr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDQmutyCVQM

he jogs the first 300 & pretty much last & then when keino charges off, he follows him ( even running in lane 2 to get after him )

the crucial thing is that keino pretty much seemed to have run the last lap fairly evenly ( even lunging at the tape to get best time ) & ryun was shadowing him & then charged off

ryun took 20y+ off keino ( running fairly even last lap ) in 300m

this shows very little had been taken out of him for 900m of that 1200m & basically mostly on basis of just a fast last 300 he recorded an unbelievable 2'46.6

he shouda run ~ 3'30 that day just if they hadn't thrown away best part of 3s in that initial 300m

Daryl Basarab wrote:

Yes.

I think Alberto Salazar would have found legal ways to enhance his performance, because he's both a researcher and a runner.

Do you know what a researcher is?

Hint: Alberto Salazar is not a researcher.

Critical Thinking wrote:

And rupp certified guy, Ryun was clearly a better miler than Kip Keino, even if he lost a race to him. Hicham El Guerrouj was likewise a better miler than Noah Ngeny.

It's funny that you compare Ryun with El Guerrouj and Keino with Ngeny. I've often thought that Ryun and Ngeny were fairly comparable -- both monstrously talented world-record holders and Olympic medalists who accomplished very little in international competition after the age of 21, although neither announced his retirement from competition until quite some years later. And while Keino obviously lacked El G's long-term dominance of the 1500/mile, he was the first- or second-ranked 1500/mile runner in the world for eight straight years and, like El G, set world records at multiple distances, won gold and silver Olympic medals in the 1500, and picked up an Olympic gold in a longer event late in his career.

None of this, of course, has much to do with the original topic. Nor do I believe that Salazar's inability to outkick Suleiman Nyambui in a world-record indoor 5000 race says much about whether Salazar might have been able to compete with the top Kenyan marathoners of today. I do, however, note that Salazar's four marathon victories in 1980-1982 were against pretty thin, largely American fields (although he did outkick Mexico's Rodolfo Gomez at the 1982 NYC marathon); his record against world-class international fields (in 1983 at Rotterdam and Fukuoka and in 1984 at the LA Games) inspires much less confidence, as does his 1984 trials finish against Pete Pfitzinger. It's quite possible that Salazar would be better matched against the top Kenyans in the half-marathon, which wasn't a very popular event during Salazar's prime competitive years.

Critical Thinking wrote:

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

So Ryun was the Alan Webb of the past, a guy who could run fast but couldn't win the races that matter. Keino won the big one. Get over it.

Keino was an athlete of the second tier who was lucky that the 1968 Olympics were held at altitude where he had an advantage,

Luck had nothing to do with it. Ryun knew for years that the Olympics would be at altitude and had plenty of time to train for it. Keino was just the better runner on the day.

Critical Thinking wrote:Keino was an athlete of the second tier

ventolin^3 wrote:

that is the dumbest comment posted here in years

keino, a "2nd tierer" who broke the 5k wr & smashed the 3k from 7'46 to 7'39 & off just 1500 training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Lo7A9y9pU

Great video.

Keino absolutely murdered Ryun, just days after taking silver in a near dead-heat in the 5000.

Ryun actually fell FURTHER behind in the last lap.

Comprehensive devastation. Rudisha-esque.

Must have been the EPO. Kenyan success has nothing to do with genetics and training, just EPO. You can tell by performances like this in 1968.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

Must have been the EPO. Kenyan success has nothing to do with genetics and training, just EPO. You can tell by performances like this in 1968.

Wow, yeah, with chops like that he should have taken a shot at Ryun's world record.

pjoscely wrote:

Funny to read this post. I saw Al Sal race Tanzania's Suleiman Nyambui (silver in the 5,000 meters behind Yifter at '80 Olympics in Moscow) back in early 80's at the Melrose Games. They were together until the last few laps when Nyambui got a ahead and held it to the end. I imagine pretty much the same would happen nowadays if AL Sal went up the Kenyans in the marathon.

Was it in Scotland? When?

Read Outliers. There are no outliers.

"The Rookie" was a kid when he won his marathons and was as good as any African out there.

J.R. wrote:

Kip Keino was one of the greatest runners in history, raced prolifically with everyone available, and ended up with two Olympic gold medals and two silvers. Ryun did not compare to him.

You're on drugs...timing is everything in sports. As others have said, Ryun at full health and/or not at altitude would've hammered Keino.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

Have you ever run NYCM? Seen a map of it? If there was a headwind, there was a tailwind, too.

You're an idiot. If there is a headwind you have 20 miles of headwind.

Let me repeat myself. Idiot.

Comedy Central wrote:

J.R. wrote:

Kip Keino was one of the greatest runners in history, raced prolifically with everyone available, and ended up with two Olympic gold medals and two silvers. Ryun did not compare to him.

You're on drugs...timing is everything in sports. As others have said, Ryun at full health and/or not at altitude would've hammered Keino.

So many of you racist hateful letsrunners are so stupid. Inbreeding no doubt, or probably your mom crossbred with a simian of some type, that would explain it.

Keino held world records at 3000 m and 5000 m well be for the 68 Olympics and went on to win 4 Olympic medals, to Ryun's single silver. Ryun was a great. So was Keino. Get over Mexico City already.