Agree that lack of specificity is the issue. We are told not to so too many runs of 20 of more and she we do them to run them slow. Having run 5 marathons at significantly below my half marathon potential I'm done with the slow long runs. The only way to be prepared to hammer miles 18-26 is to do longer long runs and to run MP for long periods of 18 to 22 miles.
Peace Out wrote:
You are delusional if you think it's all about genetics. Do your homework.
Also, hypothetically if Ritz gets more injuries and let's say can't run anymore, it's not like he will starve to death. He'll coach or write a book or whatever else and live comfortably. His counterparts in East Africa: not so much. You can't possibly compare the motivation that Ritz has to an African runner because ultimately they have different reasons for doing what they do.
You must be mentally handicapped. Check out the top 20, hell top 50 marathon times historically. To say that list is DOMINATED by east africans is a huge understatement. That list is save for Ryan Hall, exclusively east africans. Keep dreaming white boy. What's next, sprinting isn't genetic as well? Exercise physic papers and studies mean nothing next to results.
Don't want to change the subject too much, but Ritz did not finish 4th behind a "no name". He finished behind an Olympic medalist. Kogo was a minute faster at the 10k and now he is better at the marathon, is that supposed to surprise anyone?
I'm not sure the problem lies in training. Americans really don't like the marathon that well and don't race it early or often enough. Even a guy like Ritzenhein, who certainly is fast enough at track distances to run marathons well, is only there, by his own admission, because he's decided he's not going to be a top guy on the track. That's pretty typically who we have in the marathon; guys who've decided they aren't going to be where they want to be at the 5,000/10,000.
And when the faster guys do try a marathon or two, they don't seem to come back to it with much persistence if the first race or two is less than they'd hoped. Let's see R&T do another marathon in the spring, then again next fall, and see where they are.
I just love how you asshats can dis runners who break 2.10 and nearly 2.12, go out and try it yourself. These are top times and times you could never run yet you all sit back acting like assclowns like your shit doesn't stink..get out and try to do something real yourself like these are guys are giving their best shot to do.
not genetics? wrote: You must be mentally handicapped. Check out the top 20, hell top 50 marathon times historically.
NO KIDDING. And this is because of their LIFESTYLE/CULTURE and ATTITUDE.
Genetics is simulating 40km with marathon base, not even Ethiopians have discovered this new training format!
This equates to 40 miles of running each school day.
Peace Out wrote:
not genetics? wrote: You must be mentally handicapped. Check out the top 20, hell top 50 marathon times historically.NO KIDDING. And this is because of their LIFESTYLE/CULTURE and ATTITUDE.
Bull. People like Ritz and Hall are working as hard and just as focused on running as the Africans.
They do nothing but run like the Africans. Wake up and do a run, take a nap. Do another workout. Go to bed early.
I don't care how desperately motivated you are and the only path for success is marathon prize money. This isn't the reason the Kenyans dominate. You have to be a fool to think that is the case.
Everybody in this sport at the top level is working as hard as they can. If Matt Tegenkamp or Ritz were motivated that running was the only way they could have a decent life nothing would be any different.
You can only train as hard as your body allows. To say that American marathoners don't work hard enough because they aren't running weekly 15-20 mile runs at 4:50 pace and in between 6-10 mile runs at 4:40 pace is because they can't yet. Without drugs.
Just deal with it.
There has never been a non-east African runner that has run under 2:05 for a marathon. Kannouchi was Northern African and I doubt he was clean and ran 2:05.
I do believe if top American phenomenal talent can be tracked at an early age in a program to develop as a marathoner we would do better but the system is not that way. Not with the focus on high school track with the longest race being 3200 meters or 5000 meters cross country.
If you don't believe that Kenyans have a genetic advantage explain to me why 18 year old Kenyans can run 13:00. Where they training 100 miles a week when they were 14 years old?
college runner wrote:
not mentally committed = racing smart? if ritz pulled what the africans did and try go for the win he would have run 2:14+
Guys, it's not about guts or wanting it. That's the STUPIDEST THING i've heard. If that was the case, then how come everyone on here wasn't the #1 guy on their college team and running 13:20.
The fact of the matter is Ritz was 5th. If he was in a European track race, he'd be lucky to finish 5th as would even Galen Rupp if it was a 5k.
Genetics wins.
Ritz is a great runner, he's just not a world class marathoner. Coach Al waa great on the track, and he WAS even better at the marathon.
So, Ryan Hall was a great marathoner. Is he still? We'll see, or not, soon.
steroids
That smells fishy wrote:
EPO.
What he said.
Didn't Ryan Hall run 2:04:59 when Moses Mosop ran 2:03:02? That is under 2:05 and he is non-East African.
Except the winner today does not have a running history, Tergat was a volleyball player and Kipsang did not run as a kid.
Peace Out wrote:
What are they missing???? How about growing up *running* as a means of catching your food and commuting to school, 10 miles one way? Didn't Geb even say he ran home for lunch and then back to school again? Not to mention, knowing that the only way to make your way out of extreme poverty is to win marathons (and there are 100 other guys in your village who can kick your butt on any given day, I would say the motivation factor is HUGE)
I mean come on, when the 2011 world record holder can't even make the Kenyan Olympic marathon team...these guys (Kenyans/Ethiopians) are just in another league and no other country will ever be able to do what they do.
44 years ago Derek Clayton ran a minute faster than Ritz did today.
The Africans have improved much, much, more than the non Africans ever since that time. So the folks arguing about genetics would have us conclude that everyone but the Africans achieved something close to there peak abilities long ago. All the improvements in track surfaces and nutrition and physiological knowledge/coaching and everything else has hardly helped everyone else but made a huge difference with runners from Kenyan and Ethiopia.
I just don't think that it makes sense that genetics is the whole answer. I do think genetics and environment is a some part of the answer.
Let's not forget that at other distances in the last Olympics, US and British runners did just fine.
Check the stats. wrote:
Didn't Ryan Hall run 2:04:59 when Moses Mosop ran 2:03:02? That is under 2:05 and he is non-East African.
With a 25-35 mph tailwind on a point to point course. Anyone who ran that race knows that isn't a real pr. Like my pr for 10k running on a downhill course off a mountain in Utah is illegitimate. Even if it was at 3000 feet altitude.
Genetics. Teg was 9 min behind the winner and the female winner was only 7 min behind him and ran faster over the last 12k. Think about that for a moment.
Quick Take (QT) #1: Jeptoo was sensational from 30k on.
Jeptoo with men's winner Dennis Kimetto
Jeptoo with men’s winner Dennis Kimetto
From 30k to the finish, Jeptoo took 39:05 to run the final 12.194988 kms. That’s very fast. It’s 5:09.5 mile pace.
What does that mean? Well it’s Paula Radcliffe territory. She ran the final 12.19k at 2:15:13 marathon pace. Absurd.
That’s really good. Believe it or not, it’s actually faster than Americans Dathan Ritzenhein and Matt Tegenkamp ran from 30k to the finish in the men’s race and Ritz was 5th in the men’s race!!
Final 12.19km at 2013 Chicago Marathon
Rita Jeptoo: 39:05
Ritz: 39:28
Teg: 39:51
More support from the schools systems, communities, from middle school all the way through hs, college and post collegiate.
Seen a lot of runners drop by the wayside due to lack of time, funds, support coaching etc.
Side note--the athletic directors 9/10 are with the money sports-fb, bball, hockey or baseball.
The only true xc guy I've ever seen way up in the admin is vin lananna.
Probably others.
Sure there's other stuff too.
More support from the schools systems, communities, from middle school all the way through hs, college and post collegiate.
Seen a lot of runners drop by the wayside due to lack of time, funds, support coaching etc.
Side note--the athletic directors 9/10 are with the money sports-fb, bball, hockey or baseball.
The only true xc guy I've ever seen way up in the admin is vin lananna.
Probably others.
Sure there's other stuff too.