Scientists: Legit or not: Study says mental toughness is 14% of performance

Wincest! wrote:

Humans do not have instincts.

Please explain this one.

FortMnior wrote:

I have found that it is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill

Fifteen percent concentrated power of will

Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain

And a hundred percent reason to remember the name.

This is twenty percent skill

Eighty percent fear

Be a hundred percent clear cause Ryu is ill

Wincest! wrote:

Whether a study is peer-reviewed has nothing to do with its validity.

What it does is grant assurances that it has at least passed the scientific sniff-test. This doesn't mean that a peer-reviewed study is bulletproof, lots of crap still makes it through and scientists like nothing better than finding the flaws in a peer reviewed document.

But, such issues are the exception and not the norm. Major respected journals have their reputations on the line and peer review is a mechanism that protects that integrity. At least the references are checked and steps are clearly documented. Attempts to pass off assumptions as facts can be spotted.

Without that process, there are no restrictions on what the author can do. Sure, a study might very well be valid and thorough without it, but it can just as easily be an elaborate and well-written fairy tale.

I think some of it has to do with how you train. Some years I seem to train to get in better shape (usually these years are very consistent but not all that taxing) and other years I train to deal with more pain. (these seem to be when my workouts are run harder)

im dumb wrote:

I would understand this better if it were converted to a more tangible number. So if runner A runs a 15 flat 5k, what would runner B do if his performance is enhanced by mental toughness?

I think I agree with how much is being considered to make up the overall performance, because I do believe it has a significant impact--but I also think that it's actual impact on your race finish could be a wide varying range from being outkicked to the finish or 10+ sec/mi pace difference.

Runner races and has no mental toughness and runs 15 minutes.

Runner races and has 100% mental toughness and improves performance 14%.

Runner's first race 15:00 when not mentally tough. Runner's second race is 14% better due to mental toughness and runs 12:54.

Bad Wigins wrote:

More generally, the physical vs. mental thing is a false dichotomy. You aren't some ghost driving a machine,.

^This. They aren't measuring discrete, 'natural kinds' and it seems like the statistical assumptions that would underlie their '14%' figure are untenable. The mental-physical are intertwined, as demonstrated by tons of research including that showing how levels/intensity of training and pain tolerance are intertwined.

Even if they could appropriately define such an abstract concept of toughness, it would make little sense to provide just a flat figure representing its significance. 'Toughness' will only get you so far (diminishing returns) as you approach physiological limits and the importance of being mentally tough would vary from race-to-race/context-to-context. For instance, if you get a side-stitch it would be a big part of your performance (if you were weak minded you'd jog it in or walk), in perfect conditions it would be less so, and in extreme conditions it could just as easily lead to foolish tactics the negatively impact performance (e.g. think Pre at Munich...could have raced for second/third). Running tough doesn't necessarily optimize performance (just go to your local 5k and watch people go out fast and then proceed to hyperventilate for 2.5 miles with their huge positive splits).

You must be bored. That is not a scientifically valid statement is it?

FortMnior wrote:

I have found that it is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill

Fifteen percent concentrated power of will

Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain

And a hundred percent reason to remember the name.

POD

He is a psychologist so of course it isn't legit. Psychology isn't a science. If it were they would have agreed upon units (all actual sciences use units derived from the SI base units) instead wishy washy confidence surveys. Psychology is a Social "Science" which means that instead of actually doing science they use (and abuse) statistics.

Anyone have a link to the journal article?

I dont see how this is anything to be concerned with, even if it's valid.

You get your mental toughness from the physical training you do to prepare for the race. They are intertwined.

I hate junk science like this because it makes people think that they can just "tough" their way through an event without preparing for it physically first.

You actually want to read it?

Pewow wrote:

He is a psychologist so of course it isn't legit. Psychology isn't a science. If it were they would have agreed upon units (all actual sciences use units derived from the SI base units) instead wishy washy confidence surveys. Psychology is a Social "Science" which means that instead of actually doing science they use (and abuse) statistics.

Someone doesn't understand science^

im dumb wrote:

I would understand this better if it were converted to a more tangible number. So if runner A runs a 15 flat 5k, what would runner B do if his performance is enhanced by mental toughness?

I think I agree with how much is being considered to make up the overall performance, because I do believe it has a significant impact--but I also think that it's actual impact on your race finish could be a wide varying range from being outkicked to the finish or 10+ sec/mi pace difference.

archigonium wrote:

Runner races and has no mental toughness and runs 15 minutes.

Runner races and has 100% mental toughness and improves performance 14%.

Runner's first race 15:00 when not mentally tough. Runner's second race is 14% better due to mental toughness and runs 12:54.

The author commented on the RW article in response to same question:

"I'm not sure on this. First I would not read too much into the equivalent of 14% to a time, as the 14% depends on each race. Jn the races we looked at, of the variability in finish times in those races, we could explain 14% of it with MT. Since the variability will change by race, so will the time difference. On the other hand, although the effect of MT on time will be less as races get shorter (think of the 100m - prob fractions of a second), the effect on placing could be really significant, with many runners finishing close together."

archigonium wrote:

Runner races and has no mental toughness and runs 15 minutes.

Runner races and has 100% mental toughness and improves performance 14%.

Runner's first race 15:00 when not mentally tough. Runner's second race is 14% better due to mental toughness and runs 12:54.

MY anecdotal study showed that I ran 14 seconds faster in a 5k on a day of great mental focus. I'll stick with the 1.4%.

This is from a study of ultrarunners! We're talking about whether or not someone takes a walk break and how long they walk for. Does not apply to shorter distances, except maybe recreational runners in the marathon.

wanting it a little more wrote:

My own anecdotal evidence says that percentage should be closer to 1.4% rather than 14%.

This is close to what I have experienced at a given race. The genetics and training account for 98-99% of readiness/ability to race (although there is a big mental part of the training). But once you line up, the mental ability only can carry you so far--physiological mechanisms override mental ability. So if you're running a 5K (or marathon) you can only push so hard for so long before your body starts to shut down. That comes often comes down to just 10 - 20 seconds in a 5K, maybe a couple of minutes in a marathon.

Of course this assumes a reasonably fit-well trained athlete. Say a newbie, young runner, who doesn't know yet how to push themselves then the mental aspect can be a much larger difference. That's why some people have these break through races improving by a minute or more in a 15 or 20 minute race in just a matter of a week or so.

FortMnior wrote:

I have found that it is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill

Fifteen percent concentrated power of will

Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain

And a hundred percent reason to remember the name.

HAHAH! Yes.

What is mental toughness?