Correct Punishment for HSer caught drinking?

Did I say I had a right to punish the kids?

I asked "what, if any, is the correct punishment?"

It turns out the kids are suspended from 3 meets. That was the team policy going into the season. I'm not making a judgment on whether that is right or not. It seems reasonable to me, but I can understand both the do nothing and zero tolerance viewpoints.

I personally don't know what punishments are correct in terms of sending a message. My main concern is I don't want my kids getting killed by a DUI. If the kids' friends on the team are all drinking, that risk goes up. One of the least concerns in my life is whether my kid runs varsity or not. And if they did, I'd want them to earn it by running faster.

I can't imagine any high school these days doesn't have a published policy on alcohol use by athletes.

In Massachusetts, it's not even up to the school. According to the MIAA policy, if a student athlete is caught using drugs or alcohol at any point during the school year, he or she is suspended for 25% of the season; a second offense bumps the suspension up to 60%, and a third requires the student to attend a chemical dependency program.

Athletes are expected to know this.

Washed Up Cheerleader wrote:

My main concern is I don't want my kids getting killed by a DUI.

what is it with you damn old people assuming every kid who drinks underage goes out and drives like a drunken maniac after every party. only time I've ever considered driving drunk/seen others drive drunk is when the party gets busted by old twits trying to "protect us from driving drunk"

back in the day we would get all the guys together, call up some girls, get drunk as hell, smoke some dope and one of us would get lucky with the same girl(s) and pass out on the couch/floor. I'm pretty sure most HS kids still try and do the same thing, some things never change.

In the Long Green Line documentary about the legendary York HS cross country team in Illinois, Coach Joe Newton kicked two of his top runners off the team for underage drinking.

redux wrote:

1) there are legal ramifications these fellows are getting to have fun with

The legal ramifications are going to be next to nothing/virtually nonexistent. The sheriff's office will probably let it go, and if they do proceed, nothing will probably even be filed by the SAOs office. Assuming they are decent enough kids and this is their first brush with the law, juvenile judges hate dealing with status offenses such as these.

Washed Up Cheerleader wrote:

One of the least concerns in my life is whether my kid runs varsity or not. And if they did, I'd want them to earn it by running faster.

lol so presumably, your kid is not on varsity. Embarassing.

At my high school the AD suspended a couple guys on our team for a few meets for getting caught drinking at a house party. Something about violating a code of conduct. XC coach didn't really have anything to do with it and was angry.

I don't know, but on my HS football team, some seniors got caught and we had to listen to our alcoholic coach give a moronic speech about how it was fine for him to get drunk when he wanted because he was 45 years old and he earned it, but we were kids and we hadn't earned it yet. It was embarrassing, for him. But we made sure we never got caught again.

I'd say it depends if it affects their training. Friday night before a team run Saturday morning that they miss? That's punishable, since their actions are letting the team down.

Friday night before a rest day? Who cares, let the kids have fun. If they're any good, they won't have much time to drink at college parties in college, so let them do it now.

Don't think we would have ever fielded a team during the 4 years I was in high school if our coach suspended us for 3 meets every time he learned about (we told him about) our drinking binges.

He probably could have done more to keep us healthy, but I don't think the three-meet suspension would have worked. We always managed to have about 10 guys under 9:30 and a handful under 4:00/1500, and a bunch of the fastest girls in the nation . . . in spite of the heavy drinking.

This thread confirms my suspicions that no real coaches of any note post on Letsrun

Many coaches don't see themselves as clergy.

Back in the good old days, a few of us 16 and 17 year olds would go to a neighboring town to the most popular nightclub. One kid looked just like his older brother so he got in and then would let us in through the back door and lick his handstamp and transfer it to everyone else. The high school football coach was always at the bar trying to pick up chicks. Neither ever told on the other.

I remember racing a couple hangovers away at a 5k on sunday morning after running an invite on Saturday.

How about you be the parent for once and punish your kids accordingly instead of relying on coaches and teaches to raise your children.

Any progressive state will have a state high school athletics association that has set penalties for student violations of their chemical use policies.

For example, in the state where I live a first time offense for drinking would be a 2 week or 2 competition suspension, whichever is longer. A second, said violation would be 6 weeks or 6 competitions, and a third would be 12 or 2 (with a required chemical dependency assessment).

In order to participate in high school activities, most states require students and parents to sign an agreement to follow the state rules in order to participate.

These rules provide a standard for schools and athletic administrators to follow. This prevents under and over penalization.

Some red(neck) states have none of this in place and rely on individual coaches to apply the rules-----this leads to huge inequities in the application of any rules/consequences.

Well, whatever the legal ramifications are these kids are dealing with them. Maybe they aren't as tough as some people would like, but that's the joy of a representative republic.

As a follow up to my previous post, in the eyes of all state education laws (a free and appropriate public education is a state property right), high school extracurricular activities are viewed (legally) as a privilege and not a right.

Students can be deprived of the privilege of participation when not following rules established by schools and the associations with which schools align themselves.

This has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with legality. When school boards adopt polices, those policies (as long as they don't conflict with state and federal law) become de facto law----and they can be enforced as such.

In the scenario that was posed about Joe Newton "kicking an athlete of the team for underage drinking," there are a couple of potential problems------------

Coaches should never be permitted to establish team rules that conflict with the rules of their school or state. However legendary the coach, she or he should be required to implement rules with integrity. In the case of my state, Coach Newton would never be allowed to make a unilateral decision to kick a kid off a team for a first drinking offense. Neither would he be allowed to not suspend a student who'd been caught drinking because the kids is the number 1 runner on the team.

Coaches who don't follow the rules established by their institutions or states should be disciplined.

well.... wrote:

I can't imagine any high school these days doesn't have a published policy on alcohol use by athletes.

In Massachusetts, it's not even up to the school. According to the MIAA policy, if a student athlete is caught using drugs or alcohol at any point during the school year, he or she is suspended for 25% of the season; a second offense bumps the suspension up to 60%, and a third requires the student to attend a chemical dependency program.

Athletes are expected to know this.

Geez. I'm not sure how many teams could have been fielded in any sport if schools did this when I was HS aged. Drugs, I get it, those polices were and are justifiably harsh.

And yes alcohol use should be actively discouraged but wow, that is a bit much.

I ran a 1:53 for the 800 in High School with essentially all of my Saturday morning workouts/intervals and Sunday long runs being hungover nightmares....have fun out there kids