I think everyone from McDonald cashiers to Brain Surgeons to NFL footballers to Miley Cyrus should be paid $15 an hour.
I think everyone from McDonald cashiers to Brain Surgeons to NFL footballers to Miley Cyrus should be paid $15 an hour.
The first three finishers at the 1980 Olympic Trials marathon were two doctors and a lawyer. I don't see why folks can't work and run hard.
Taco Truck wrote:
This is great. Why should hobby joggers pay for elites to take power naps to run 3 times per day? Elites bring zero value to these races. NOBODY cares who wins or what the winning time is.
Not really true.
More than not, amateurs are pretty blown away when they hear that someone ran 13x 4:30 miles in a row.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Not really true.
More than not, amateurs are pretty blown away when they hear that someone ran 13x 4:30 miles in a row.
Well 13.1 4:30 miles in a row is 58:30 for a half marathon. That type of athlete (the very very best in the world) is not what is being discussed here. We're really talking about people in the low 14s, mid 29s, 1:04s, 2:18s who do not add any true value to a race. The chances of these runners ascend to be the best in the world is extremely low yet they expect a handout just to continue training and scraping along.
I agree that this is not great, I really wish races would give out prize money. But their decision is just, what's the point? If a runner is good enough, they'll be able to get a shoe or apparel company to help them out.
One of the main issues is that most RD are old people who have no clue how to market a race to the millennials. Ironically, CGI are the only ones who know how to!
I see this as a major opportunity to a smart RD.
The domino effect could be interesting.
Other races follow the trend.
Shoe companies decide not to sponsor races and put their money elsewhere.
Shoe companies do not see a return on their investments in elite athlete sponsorship as races no longer support or highlight elite competition.
Elite athlete programs become something of the past.
Track being more obscure see's it the same way , no more appearance or travel money etc. , prize money if you show up and place.
It always been a debate on wether elite athletes sell anything or not , gives brand recognition or not , the average runner could not tell you what athlete runs for what company or who won what major race.
Taco Truck wrote:
This is great. Why should hobby joggers pay for elites to take power naps to run 3 times per day? Elites bring zero value to these races. NOBODY cares who wins or what the winning time is.
Sort of and not exactly. Elites bring media coverage. The difference between the Marine Corps Marathon and the Chicago Marathon is mostly that Chicago gets what passes for national and international media coverage and the MCM doesn't. That's because Chicago has international level athletes and MCM doesn't.
Whether that matters or not comes down to whether you're a fan of the sport as well as a competitor. Most people who play golf or tennis seriously also watch their sports on TV, like to read about them in Sports Illustrated, etc.
Elites also provide reality checks for "lesser" competitors. I was in a discussion recently where someone was commenting about a 35 year old with a 5 km best of 17:40 or so who didn't do a tremendous amount of training. A lot of the comments were about how fast this guy was and that's because most of the people in the discussion were sort of hobby joggers who didn't know that there were people that age running under 14:00.
If hobby joggers don't want to pay for elite athletes to take three power naps a day they can avoid doing it be entering events that don't bring in elite runners. These events are not hard to find and some of them, like the Marine Corps Marathon, have all the amenities of other big time races.
HRE wrote:
Sort of and not exactly. Elites bring media coverage. The difference between the Marine Corps Marathon and the Chicago Marathon is mostly that Chicago gets what passes for national and international media coverage and the MCM doesn't. That's because Chicago has international level athletes and MCM doesn't.
And both races sell out in less than a week. In fact, the MCM (you know, the one with no elites) sold out in less than three HOURS. If a race director can sell out a race in less time than it takes most of the field to run it, why should he bother reducing his bottom line paying for airfare or prize money?
business sense wrote:
HRE wrote:Sort of and not exactly. Elites bring media coverage. The difference between the Marine Corps Marathon and the Chicago Marathon is mostly that Chicago gets what passes for national and international media coverage and the MCM doesn't. That's because Chicago has international level athletes and MCM doesn't.
And both races sell out in less than a week. In fact, the MCM (you know, the one with no elites) sold out in less than three HOURS. If a race director can sell out a race in less time than it takes most of the field to run it, why should he bother reducing his bottom line paying for airfare or prize money?
Sponsorship $$$. Which do you think has more value to the sponsor: a regional-only race with no media coverage, or a nationally covered race a la "ING New York Marathon"?
business sense wrote:
And both races sell out in less than a week. In fact, the MCM (you know, the one with no elites) sold out in less than three HOURS. If a race director can sell out a race in less time than it takes most of the field to run it, why should he bother reducing his bottom line paying for airfare or prize money?
Because Chicago's title sponsor, Bank of America, received value from having its logo on a national broadcast and in print and online coverage of a world class event. Try and figure what it would cost to purchase commercials and advertising in print and online of equivalent exposure and compare that to what they spend on the marathon.
And to say nothing of developing the sport. Is it really too much to expect the race director to have some interest in promoting the sport? Of course profitability matters, but the Asperger-like focus on profits to the exclusion of any other concern is short sighted and counter-productive. (quote]Ho Hum wrote:
business sense wrote:
HRE wrote:Sort of and not exactly. Elites bring media coverage. The difference between the Marine Corps Marathon and the Chicago Marathon is mostly that Chicago gets what passes for national and international media coverage and the MCM doesn't. That's because Chicago has international level athletes and MCM doesn't.
And both races sell out in less than a week. In fact, the MCM (you know, the one with no elites) sold out in less than three HOURS. If a race director can sell out a race in less time than it takes most of the field to run it, why should he bother reducing his bottom line paying for airfare or prize money?
Sponsorship $$$. Which do you think has more value to the sponsor: a regional-only race with no media coverage, or a nationally covered race a la "ING New York Marathon"?[/quote]
Do it wrote:
I bust my @ss working a full time job, raising a family, and running in whatever free time available. I think even elite runners should have to find their own jobs and do the same. This is how it was back in the 50s,60s. Now elite athletes feel entitled to get appearance fees and the like.
Honestly:
1. A lot of this money is being siphoned off to East Africans.
2. I care more about the runner who busted his @ss like I am mine to get where he is than a guy riding on comfy accommodations like Rupp or other training group.
In this age of professional sports, this is a ludicrous ideal. Can you imagine if NBA, NFL, and MLB players had to find a job on top of practicing? Only in our sport do we fight tooth and nail to keep money in the hands of the rich and keep our professionals in abject poverty.
slowcoach wrote:
Also support with the decision. Having elites in the races I do has never had any impact on whether I race or not. I'd sooner see funds get used to do things that make races better for everyone. Maybe more restrooms, or a free entry to everyone beating a specific time, or scoring more than a specific number (80?) on the AG tables - to make the fields competitive.
i miss the 70s and 80s - where some of the world's best would turn up for a hilly 6 mile race (which was really 6.3)all at their own expense and turn each other inside out for the pride of winning and to take home a portable color TV.
stop living in the past. Its not the 70s and 80s. Gas isn't .50 a gallon any more. You can't get a hotel room for $20. When it can cost over $500 with travel, transportation, food, and entry to run a race, the winner better dam well be compensated; otherwise he might as well just run a college meet unattached.
Runrunrunrun wrote:
Jeff Wigand wrote:Not really true.
More than not, amateurs are pretty blown away when they hear that someone ran 13x 4:30 miles in a row.
Well 13.1 4:30 miles in a row is 58:30 for a half marathon. That type of athlete (the very very best in the world) is not what is being discussed here. We're really talking about people in the low 14s, mid 29s, 1:04s, 2:18s who do not add any true value to a race. The chances of these runners ascend to be the best in the world is extremely low yet they expect a handout just to continue training and scraping along.
I agree that this is not great, I really wish races would give out prize money. But their decision is just, what's the point? If a runner is good enough, they'll be able to get a shoe or apparel company to help them out.
these 1:04 guys can't get a leg up and run 1:02s, 1:01, even under an hour without some support. Thats why the US is still so far behind Japan, Kenya, and Ethiopia. We have the will and the desire, but our runners lack the means. It takes 2-3 runs a day, naps, eating the best organic food, and an evening strength session.
Im not so sure you see the big picture.
You may be to close to it to see the light between the trees , in reality both events serve their own purpose.
The so called model of elites being a media draw may have held water years ago , not today. People races , cause racing are driving the masses. Human interest stories bring coverage not elites stories.
Reality check ? They could care less how fast the elite runs , their reality check is how fast they compare to their buddy.
Left Said Fred wrote:
Because Chicago's title sponsor, Bank of America, received value from having its logo on a national broadcast and in print and online coverage of a world class event. Try and figure what it would cost to purchase commercials and advertising in print and online of equivalent exposure and compare that to what they spend on the marathon.
I'm glad that Chicago's race director is able to sell title sponsorship to his race. That probably helps pay the bills.
MCM doesn't have a title sponsor, and it's still able to sell out in no time. This isn't some backwater regional race; it's a major event with 30k people. They could add 10k slots and sell out in less than a day.
Less than half of the Rock'n'Roll races have title sponsorship (see list here:
http://runrocknroll.competitor.com/tour-stops), and yet they're able to make Competitor Group a ton of profit. Are you insinuating that if they offered travel money to each of these races they'd all become world class like Chicago?
Your the "whiny bitch" wanting free everything. WTF?...get a job!
Hell without the "non professional" runners there would be little to no road races.
Like other people said, No interest in watching 2nd tier East Africans win the RNR marathons.
I would be excited to see some young local runners win and maybe get a little attention to improve their careers.
It won't be too long before we have threads here about which elites are running at Chicago, which at New York, at Berlin, etc. There will be discussion about who'll win, who might pop out of nowhere and surprise, who's lost form and so on. On race day it can be hard to get the board here if something exciting happened at one of those races because there's so much traffic discussing it. There will be people asking where Internet streams are so they can watch those races live.
None of that will happen with the Marine Corps Marathon. Interest in that race will largely be limited to those running it and their families and friends. So if all that matters to an RD is getting a five figure field paying an exorbitant entry fee, then sure, don't bother with assembling an elite field. But if you want an event that will draw attention from beyond the area served by your local newspaper and TV stations then you need elites.
Working runner! wrote:
Your the "whiny bitch" wanting free everything. WTF?...get a job!
Hell without the "non professional" runners there would be little to no road races.
Like other people said, No interest in watching 2nd tier East Africans win the RNR marathons.
I would be excited to see some young local runners win and maybe get a little attention to improve their careers.
They've had Meseret Defar and Mo Farah win races this year. Hardly second tier.
Don't follow your thinking - you're not interested in watching "second tier East Africans" but would rather watch 4th tier Americans? Why? Is it the second tier you're not interested in or the East African part of it?
Working runner! wrote:
Your the "whiny bitch" wanting free everything. WTF?...get a job!
Hell without the "non professional" runners there would be little to no road races.
Like other people said, No interest in watching 2nd tier East Africans win the RNR marathons.
I would be excited to see some young local runners win and maybe get a little attention to improve their careers.