A Duck wrote: You think he didn't know he needed a PB to win with Aman in the race?
He then went and did exactly what he said was suicidal for him, he went out in 24ish and then paid for it in the last 30meters.
Personally, I thought he'd need to run a PR to win the race. What does Peanut Butter have do with it.
Bottom line: Symmonds ran with guts, something that is rarely seen in championship middle distance and distance racing.
A Duck wrote:
Dude, please stop your juvenile delusions.
You think he didn't know he needed a PB to win with Aman in the race?
He then went and did exactly what he said was suicidal for him, he went out in 24ish and then paid for it in the last 30meters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR0SVCbS_bI
Aman started faster than Symmonds. Aman finished faster than Symmonds. Aman made more tactical blunders than Symmonds. And Aman won.
Aman was significantly better than Symmonds on this day. There is nothing that Symmonds could have done that would have resulted in gold.
coach d wrote:
Just more evidence of the obnoxious arrogance of the Oregon fans. Anyone who that anyone but Aman was going to win this race is an idiot. And I was for Solomon but knew his a$$ was cooked after the semi.
It was nice of Coach D to show up AFTER the race to tell us what he knew was going to happen BEFORE the race
But I guess he was too busy coaching his college team and couldn't post before the race
How many athletes you got at the WCs Coach D?
Symmonds went out in 6th place at 200m, which hardly seems likely to have been low 24. He may have moved a little too hard to the bell to catch Solomon, because you only get one move in an 800m, but this was the first time he ever put himself in position to medal in a world or Olympic race and it worked. Aman was going to win that race once he got out of the box as long as it was over 1:43. Had Solomon even been able to equal his season best (1:43.27), he would have had the victory and of course both Solomon and Symmonds ran sub 1:43 last year, so they could have used that strength today.
Bondz wrote:
As opposed to trying to run down aman from 6th place as his back running tactics would have allowed. Non sense, you should be happy for this oregon athlete but all of a sudden you're being a sell out. He wasnt beating aman today but he ran with guts to get silver.
Nothing in my original post connotes whether I am happy for him or not.
See further comments.
A Duck wrote:
Was too keyed up...went out too fast.
He finally got a medal in a world championship race. Even though he didn't win, I wouldn't say he failed here.
last 100 14 sec.
Should have held back from 400-600 sat on Amam until 75m to go.
Symmonds didn't lose. He got beat.
That is honorable and we should all be proud.
He made a smart tactical decision based on the situation. If not perfect it was valley and it was his best chance. Their are no perfect races, no ideal runs with perfect drafting and rail hugging and weather conditions. There is just blood sweat and chance.
Nick has put in consistent effort for years and years and remained strong and never got injured. Others were hurt. So what? It's like when people say 'he would have won if he hadn't tripped over the hurdle.' Getting over the hurdle is part of the race.
Congrats to Nick can't wait to see more in 8 and even more on the 15.
And I know we'll see more good stuff from Solomon and Johnson.
Maybe they'll chase the record soon
A Duck wrote:
Dude, please stop your juvenile delusions.
You think he didn't know he needed a PB to win with Aman in the race?
He then went and did exactly what he said was suicidal for him, he went out in 24ish and then paid for it in the last 30meters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR0SVCbS_bI
He didn't need to PB to win the race. He needed to run 1:43.30. His best time is 1:42.95. Instead, he ran his second fastest time ever-- 1:43.55. Somehow that doesn't seem suicidal to me.
By the way, the one time Symmonds did break 1:43 he went out in 24.8/50.4. His splits today were 24.2/50.0. I wouldn't call that suicidal.
A Duck wrote:
Symmonds lost this race the only way he could.
Not to nitpick, but there were an infinite number of ways that Nick Symmonds could have lost, and quite possibly zero ways for him to win. So you just established a new low for accuracy the only way you could.
crazy raisin wrote:
A Duck wrote:Symmonds has said in the past that going out that fast in the first 200/400 was not smart for him.
23.point into the race I knew he'd blown it.
From the video it still looks like about 24 flat to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck3oXjirPsQIs that really enough to kill him? I mean 24.8 like London would have been better but would that really have made the quarter-second difference he needed to win?
A Duck wrote:
In my mind he had to run under 1:42 to guarantee a win.
Meaning he had to PB to win...which is how it turned out.
(Assuming you mean under 1:43) - which are you saying? He lost the only way he could, or he had to PB to win, i.e. he was a long shot? No way a PB was in the cards today - London had nicer weather, nicer track, more bodies in front of him to draft off of, and it was more strung out... I think Nick was afraid they'd get too bunched up at the end of the race this time around, so he didn't take any chances and positioned himself right behind Duane rather than risk getting boxed - something that has happened to him in 800m finals before.
Good catch, yeah I meant under 1:43.
I'm saying both. The guy has said himself that going out that fast for the first 200 is suicidal for him. And then he does it.
It think it cost him his shot at the gold.
The difference, in the end, was that he needed an extra 3/10ths (at least) to beat Aman. Where were those 3/10ths lost? I haven't seen the 200m splits yet but I think he was 23high and then 27ish, so his first 400 looked a more reasonable 50.+. But that 23high cost him. The moves on the first home stretch cost him. The time in lane two cost him. These things may have cost him only 3/10ths, or having a second burst to fight off Aman, but they cost him the difference between gold and silver. The proof is in the result of the race. The fast start and aggressive moves got him silver. They also lost him having a move to hold off Aman.
Aman got boxed. He didn't worry about it and ran on the rail, not in lane two. Nick made moves and expended energy that surely added up to the 3/10ths or so that he needed.
Too many people here were sleeping on Aman, and I figured it was going to take a PB level race to beat Aman -- and I thought Symmonds had it in him. --Everything Symmonds has said the past month has indicated he was in better shape than last year, and the best shape of is life.
I think he ran the only race he could to lose it: going out in 23high. Being aggressive and courageous also got him the silver. It's just that it cost him the gold. The strategy to win, that extra 3/10ths? Aman's race, Aman's strategy.
Steve Cram and others have questioned Symmonds strategy. I think he expended energy when he didn't need too, went out too aggressive, and it cost him the gold, but it won him the silver.
It's sports, that's the way it goes.
A Duck wrote:
Aman got boxed. He didn't worry about it and ran on the rail, not in lane two. Nick made moves and expended energy that surely added up to the 3/10ths or so that he needed.
Too many people here were sleeping on Aman, and I figured it was going to take a PB level race to beat Aman -- and I thought Symmonds had it in him. --Everything Symmonds has said the past month has indicated he was in better shape than last year, and the best shape of is life.
I think he ran the only race he could to lose it: going out in 23high. Being aggressive and courageous also got him the silver. It's just that it cost him the gold. The strategy to win, that extra 3/10ths? Aman's race, Aman's strategy.
Steve Cram and others have questioned Symmonds strategy. I think he expended energy when he didn't need too, went out too aggressive, and it cost him the gold, but it won him the silver.
It's sports, that's the way it goes.
First of all, Aman was leading the race at the 200 meter mark. He split 23.5. He was shoulder-to-shoulder with Symmonds at the 400 meter mark. He was hip-to-hip with Symmonds at 600.
If Symmonds' strategy wasn't the winning strategy, then why did Mo Aman do exactly the same thing?
Your original post "Symmonds lost this race the only way he could" is way off the mark. There are dozens of ways to lose the race - from going out too slow, to getting dq'd, to running too wide around 4 curves, to getting boxed in, to getting tripped from behind (a la Ulceny, or Ryun or Viren) etc.
I'm sure there are others you could add.
Symmonds grabbed the bull by the horns and determined that if anyone was to beat him, he'd have to do it by over taking him in the home straight. That took courage.
He did not win the race, but he won a medal and he won a world of admiration for the gutsy effort he made in the heat of world championship competition.
A Duck wrote:
Was too keyed up...went out too fast.
keyed up means to have snorted cocaine in some groups
Symmonds confirms that he went out too fast and it cost him:
Symmonds post race:
"...I was right there with a hundred to go...I flipped the switch on the homestretch and gave it everything I had and the HOT PACE KINDA GRIPPED MY LEGS with 20 to go and I couldn't quite get to that line..."
Sounds a lot like he is saying he went out to fast and it cost him the win/gold.
I'm happy that he went for it, and I'm happy that he got a medal.
I just would have been happier if he had been less keyed up, a tad less aggressive, run on the rail like Aman, and had it in the last 30 meters.
A Duck wrote:
Symmonds confirms that he went out too fast and it cost him:
Symmonds post race:
"...I was right there with a hundred to go...I flipped the switch on the homestretch and gave it everything I had and the HOT PACE KINDA GRIPPED MY LEGS with 20 to go and I couldn't quite get to that line..."
http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/251036-IAAF-World-Championships-Moscow-2013-Interviews-Races/video/719336-Nick-Symmonds-finally-gets-his-global-medal-in-800-at-Moscow-World-Champs-2013?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitterSounds a lot like he is saying he went out to fast and it cost him the win/gold.
I'm happy that he went for it, and I'm happy that he got a medal.
I just would have been happier if he had been less keyed up, a tad less aggressive, run on the rail like Aman, and had it in the last 30 meters.
Aman went out faster than Nick and still had far more left at the end.
Aman was clearly better than Nick on this day.
There was absolutely nothing Nick could have done to change this.
Sorry if you cannot see what is so obvious to any student of the sport.
Everyone that isn't aware:
A Duck is a huge douchebag, and he absolutely loaths Nick Symmonds.
He hates the fact that Symmonds wants to change track and field for the better.
He hates the fact that Symmonds wants more power to the athletes.
He hates the fact that Symmonds is way more interesting than Rupp probably will be for the mainstream audience.
He hates athletes who are not boring as hell.
This is a quote from A Duck about Symmonds earlier this summer:
"Symmonds, I don't know what to say about the guy, he gets lower and lower brow as time goes on.
All this nonsense about parimutual betting and serving beer at track meets.
Can we add midget races with that Nick? Oh wait, he is a midget.
The problems of track and field are deeper than a few shallow solutions."
A Duck in this forgets to mention why beer is such a horrible thing for his "O hoooly and pure sport" and forgets that the without doubt best DL meet in the world, Zürich, has a form of betting included to make it more interesting.
Funny thing, A Duck recent behaviour about Symmonds is the exact same behaviour that he critizices "Rupp-certified Saladbar" for doing with Rupp.
A new low duckie, especially against someone who has done more for the sport than you ever will.
Barakus Obama wrote:
Everyone that isn't aware:
A Duck is a huge douchebag, and he absolutely loaths Nick Symmonds.
He hates the fact that Symmonds wants to change track and field for the better.
He hates the fact that Symmonds wants more power to the athletes.
He hates the fact that Symmonds is way more interesting than Rupp probably will be for the mainstream audience.
He hates athletes who are not boring as hell.
This is a quote from A Duck about Symmonds earlier this summer:
"Symmonds, I don't know what to say about the guy, he gets lower and lower brow as time goes on.
All this nonsense about parimutual betting and serving beer at track meets.
Can we add midget races with that Nick? Oh wait, he is a midget.
The problems of track and field are deeper than a few shallow solutions."
A Duck in this forgets to mention why beer is such a horrible thing for his "O hoooly and pure sport" and forgets that the without doubt best DL meet in the world, Zürich, has a form of betting included to make it more interesting.
Funny thing, A Duck recent behaviour about Symmonds is the exact same behaviour that he critizices "Rupp-certified Saladbar" for doing with Rupp.
A new low duckie, especially against someone who has done more for the sport than you ever will.
FANTASTIC POST! A Duck is a piece of garbage.
the sad reality wrote:
You are sounding just like the Rupp haters you always argue with.
Symmonds ran the smartest race he could. Aman is a better 800 guy and therefore won. Please stop with your mindless ranting.
A Duck wrote:
Dude, please stop your juvenile delusions.
You think he didn't know he needed a PB to win with Aman in the race?
First off, "the sad reality" is exactly right, and don't be mad at Nick for doing a better WC than Rupp. Its not Nicks fault Rupp didnt medal.
Second, what is Nicks PB and what time did Aman win the race in?
Barakus Obama wrote:
the sad reality wrote:You are sounding just like the Rupp haters you always argue with.
Symmonds ran the smartest race he could. Aman is a better 800 guy and therefore won. Please stop with your mindless ranting.
A Duck wrote:
Dude, please stop your juvenile delusions.
You think he didn't know he needed a PB to win with Aman in the race?
First off, "the sad reality" is exactly right, and don't be mad at Nick for doing a better WC than Rupp. Its not Nicks fault Rupp didnt medal.
Second, what is Nicks PB and what time did Aman win the race in?
No, the sad reality is that you are a mindless tweak with a dumb assed handle.
LISTEN TO NICK'S OWN WORDS - HE WENT OUT TOO FAST AND IT COST HIM IN THE LAST 50, 20.
HE LAYS IT OUT HIMSELF SUCCINCTLY AND ELOQUENTLY:
http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/251036-IAAF-World-Championships-Moscow-2013-Interviews-Races/video/719336-Nick-Symmonds-finally-gets-his-global-medal-in-800-at-Moscow-World-Champs-2013?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter