Fastest historic untainted 100m times

lulz: "Bailey is probably one of the most doped to ever partake in an Oly 100m final"

Prove it to me, and he's off. As of now, he's on.

"Half the guys you listed train(ed) with known doping coaches."

I have already addressed that point, see above. I agree there might be a problem with certain coaches, but visiting that pain on the athlete, without lots more, is not by itself a reasonable reason to keep them off the list.

I agree with your general sentiment that there might be a "super-class", guys who seem squeaky-clean, for instance not ever having even associated with any questionable coach, club, or contemporaries. However, at this point, I probably wouldn't include Collins in such a super-class.

asdfaafdafasd--

Bolt's offenses are many, many more than the two you mentioned, and they have been discussed before. There are just too many anomalies to make him suspect.

Bolt is OFF the list.

Compare someone like Bolt to someone like Burrell or Marsh. The level of taint isn't even close, and the dividing line of ON and OFF the list lies somewhere between them.

Incidentally, Marsh might just be #2 best all-time 100/200 guy, behind Fredericks. Also interestingly, I think they were about the same size and body proportions:

Fredericks 5'11" / 160lbs

Marsh 5'10" / 150lbs

Those are their listed heights/weights, although I would bet that they were both heavier than those weights would indicate.

Bailey ran 10.3 for 3 straight seasons while training. He then drops to 10.0 and sub 10 shortly after. Fvck, the guy was rumored to be a gun smuggler at one point in time while in Canada. He clearly had access and utilized the juice.

I don't see how you keep him, but throw out others. Makes no sense.

Bailey ran 10.3 for 3 straight seasons while training. He then drops to 10.0 and sub 10 shortly after. Fvck, the guy was rumored to be a gun smuggler at one point in time while in Canada. He clearly had access and utilized the juice.

I don't see how you keep him, but throw out others. Makes no sense.

100m - 9.84 - Bailey and Surin

200m - 19.65 - Spearmon (maybe, just maybe, Dix)

400m - 43.87 ? - Steve Lewis ? IDK

If you had seen Bailey run those 10.3's, HOW he ran those 10.3's, you wouldn't be at all surprised that he dropped to sub-10 with a little bit of work. Bailey was a machine, that somebody just needed to teach some coordination and body positioning.

He was a phenomenal natural talent, the best I have personally ever seen, and I have seen many. Also, he sucked at the 200, and was optimized for the 100. Also, he was subject to some of the most severe scrutiny, ever, as was Surin.

That's why they are on the list, and others are not. Gun smuggling rumors are totally insubstantial. His only problem is his association with Pfaff, which, like many on the list, is not enough by itself to get him thrown off.

Bailey is ON.

You implied that you were comparing Bailey to others who have been thrown off the list. In particular, who not on the list, but who might be by time, has as good a case as Bailey for being clean, and which of their qualifying performances is not questionable in some way?

Can you guys give some more details about Dan Pfaff being involved in coaching athletes who used PEDs and this connection to Charlie Francis? I've never heard this before but have always been suspect of him and would be interested in hearing what you know that I don't.

hey printsneezer

you did'n answer my question

and paula radcliffe says hi..

I doubt Pfaff gave anybody drugs, ever. In fact, I think he has focused on pole vault (and some HJ) specifically because you don't need sauce to be elite.

The fact is though, he coached Marion and Tim and was heavily involved with various Canadians, who have a history of being dirty. Bailey and Surin were most definitely on heavy amounts of sauce. I think he simply turned a blind eye to it and now he doesn't want to be associated with it any longer. There is no other explanation for why he hasn't regularly worked with any elite sprinters in years.

I've said it over and over again. Of the top tier sprinters I would be MOST surprised if Bolt was doping. I was not in the least shocked by Gay's doping bust who in almost everyone of his seasons runs crazy fast times from April to September. No sprinter can sustain that without help.

Team Bolt has a peaking strategy that has worked well for Bolt so far. I don't see that as evidence of getting doped up a few weeks before a championship - which would be very risky - but as evidence of a coach getting his athlete primed to run fast when it matters most.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

200m - 19.65 - Spearmon (maybe, just maybe, Dix)

Is there a cloud around Dix? Any doubts in your mind? Is he definitely clean?

YoHoNo wrote:

I've said it over and over again. Of the top tier sprinters I would be MOST surprised if Bolt was doping. I was not in the least shocked by Gay's doping bust who in almost everyone of his seasons runs crazy fast times from April to September. No sprinter can sustain that without help.

Team Bolt has a peaking strategy that has worked well for Bolt so far. I don't see that as evidence of getting doped up a few weeks before a championship - which would be very risky - but as evidence of a coach getting his athlete primed to run fast when it matters most.

How on earth do you come to this conclusion? Are you leaving out the part where he had next to no progress for years and then turns into a 9.6 and 200m WR running alien in the course of 6 months?

This is the who knows category. Maybe the coach is clueless, maybe he is turning a blind eye, and so on. I can think of tons of reasons why other elite athletes don't want to work with him. Maybe he wants too much money, doesn't want to move/travel, is pain to work with, and so on. He falls in the category where I want to believe but right now you end up having to be pretty much suspicious of everyone.

lulz wrote:

I doubt Pfaff gave anybody drugs, ever. In fact, I think he has focused on pole vault (and some HJ) specifically because you don't need sauce to be elite.

The fact is though, he coached Marion and Tim and was heavily involved with various Canadians, who have a history of being dirty. Bailey and Surin were most definitely on heavy amounts of sauce. I think he simply turned a blind eye to it and now he doesn't want to be associated with it any longer. There is no other explanation for why he hasn't regularly worked with any elite sprinters in years.

Bailey on that list? You've got to be kidding, right?

sayin'--

I did answer upthread, as best I could.

That is all true, except for Canadians "having a history of being dirty".

A certain generation of Canadians, in a certain group, had a history of being dirty. Surin and Bailey were neither of that generation, nor with that group.

"Pfaff coached Marion and Tim and they were both on the sauce, therefore Bailey and Surin were most definitely on the sauce because they had also earlier received coaching from Pfaff--not only that, but they were on heavy amounts of sauce."

Not nearly good enough, in light of everything else that I know. Is there more?

YoHoNo: "Team Bolt has a peaking strategy that has worked well for Bolt so far. I don't see that as evidence of getting doped up a few weeks before a championship"

Of course it is not evidence of anything, it is a conclusion--for instance, said "peaking strategy" could well be doping, and you have said nothing that would disprove such a suggestion--while on the other hand, there is significant evidence to prove it.

ok Sprintgeezer

you just annoy me sometimes

you overanalyze too much

YoHoNo

RE: Fastest historic untainted 100m times 7/23/2013 4:11PM -

I've said it over and over again. Of the top tier sprinters I would be MOST surprised if Bolt was doping. I was not in the least shocked by Gay's doping bust who in almost everyone of his seasons runs crazy fast times from April to September. No sprinter can sustain that without help.

Team Bolt has a peaking strategy that has worked well for Bolt so far. I don't see that as evidence of getting doped up a few weeks before a championship - which would be very risky - but as evidence of a coach getting his athlete primed to run fast when it matters most.

this is a joke right....