Citizen Runner wrote:
Veronica Capshaw wrote:Would Pre had needed pacers if attempting a goal time?
Pre never ran the 13:20 WC B standard. Draw your own conclusions.
He did hold every American track record from 2000 meters to 10,000 meters.
Citizen Runner wrote:
Veronica Capshaw wrote:Would Pre had needed pacers if attempting a goal time?
Pre never ran the 13:20 WC B standard. Draw your own conclusions.
He did hold every American track record from 2000 meters to 10,000 meters.
crazy raisin wrote:
Why does Salazar try to help his athletes so much?
Why is Salazar smart?
Why can't he just do things the way everyone else does, and be as unsuccessful as everyone else?
This is it right here. Look at the success of Salazar runners (who stick with him) and the NOP. Seriously everyone moans and whines about them, but when Rupp medals it's a celebration.
Hasay and Erdmann finished 2nd and 3rd. Don't you WANT them to represent the country in Moscow since they showed better fitness than the other competitors? Or do you want runners who couldn't even hang with them (Goucher) to go? Kara is a great runner but belongs in the marathon (or half). It's obvious they are capable of hitting the standard and it is in the best interests of the US track and field community to have them get it as easily as possible.
That's the exact situation of Lukas Verzbicas breaking the HS 2mile record....
trello wrote:
Veronica Capshaw wrote:Would Pre had needed pacers if attempting a goal time? Of course not - he would have toed the starting line and just taken off. No pacers, no ice vests, no underwater treadmills, no PEDs, no calming talks, no hotel visits
, no medals,
At the same ages, Rupp, no Oly medals.
Brianruns10 wrote:
Yeah, this may be legal to do, but it just defeats the spirit of the thing. Just seems patently unfair, that she gets a special race with a whole pack of pace setter to help her along. How many other standard chasers would be so lucky?
I mean, why not just put her on a bloody treadmill set to roll at sub 32:00 pace. Jeez. Hit the grand prix circuit, and find a race and run your own bloody time.
God you're dumb. First off, there are not that many women's races on the grand prix circuit, and likely none in time.
Even so, that travel and jet lag will interrupt training plans at altitude etc.
Next, the gender of who is running in front of you doesn't matter...as if the girls hears, lungs, legs, bodies, muscles etc., still wouldn't have to cover the distance.
No, I don't want them to represent the country if they can't get the minimum standard without setting up an unethical racing situation.
troof ked wrote:
crazy raisin wrote:Why does Salazar try to help his athletes so much?
Why is Salazar smart?
Why can't he just do things the way everyone else does, and be as unsuccessful as everyone else?
This is it right here. Look at the success of Salazar runners (who stick with him) and the NOP. Seriously everyone moans and whines about them, but when Rupp medals it's a celebration.
Hasay and Erdmann finished 2nd and 3rd. Don't you WANT them to represent the country in Moscow since they showed better fitness than the other competitors? Or do you want runners who couldn't even hang with them (Goucher) to go? Kara is a great runner but belongs in the marathon (or half). It's obvious they are capable of hitting the standard and it is in the best interests of the US track and field community to have them get it as easily as possible.
Jordan has only been a few weeks with Salazar and her ethical standards are already on the downturn.
Government Cheese wrote:
No, I don't want them to represent the country if they can't get the minimum standard without setting up an unethical racing situation.
What about this is unethical? It's allowed under the rules and she still has to run the time. I see nothing wrong with this.
anonymouse wrote:
Government Cheese wrote:No, I don't want them to represent the country if they can't get the minimum standard without setting up an unethical racing situation.
What about this is unethical? It's allowed under the rules and she still has to run the time. I see nothing wrong with this.
My initial reaction was to say that a mixed gender race is BS, but then I thought "well it's not really much different than any other races with rabbits"...
The only problem is that these pace setters will be taking her the entire way and will probably be perfect pace every lap. That NEVER happens in legitimate races. How far do 10k rabbits normally make it? 5k? Maybe 7k if someone is really lucky?
If the rules allow it, go for it, but getting the standard is going to be very-very difficult; 4 track 10Ks in 2 months is a lot. And, at this point in the season it's going to be about 75 degrees no matter where and what time of the day you run.
There is a good chance the IAAF might accept Jordan and Tara's time because there are only about a dozen women who have met the standard who actually intend to run the event and I can't think on any quality meet that has a 10K on the schedule. If AlSal does create a race, there will probably be several other women who might participate.
Being allowed under the rules and being ethical are not always entirely synonymous
anonymouse wrote:
Government Cheese wrote:No, I don't want them to represent the country if they can't get the minimum standard without setting up an unethical racing situation.
What about this is unethical? It's allowed under the rules and she still has to run the time. I see nothing wrong with this.
Government Cheese wrote:
Being allowed under the rules and being ethical are not always entirely synonymous
Care to explain this?
The rule is stupid. Mixed gender races allowed for World Championship qualifying? Give me a break. What is next, allowing mixed runner/cyclist races for qualifying?
That being said, Salazar, Hasay, and Erdmann would be dumb not to take full advantage of it. This will make hitting the standard significantly easier.
been around ya' know wrote:
[quote]Brianruns10 wrote:
She has already qualified against the best female competition that the country had to offer in a race.
Actually, no...................
Many of the best that the US has to offer declined the race knowing that a) it would be impossible to post an A or B in the heat (except for Shalane) and b) that you would need Nike-like money to stage your own 10k to get the standard afterwards.
The US 1/2 was Saturday, so many chose that (like Desi, for example):
31:04.85 1 Shalane Flanagan Nike Mar 29 Stanford Inv
31:46.64 2 Kara Goucher Nike Mar 29 Stanford Inv
32:06.64 6 Jordan Hasay Oregon Apr 28 Stanford Jordan Inv
32:15.51 9 Laura Thweatt Boulder TC Apr 28 Stanford Jordan Inv
32:29.14 13 Mattie Suver Boulder RC Apr 28 Stanford Jordan Inv
32:33.05 14 Brianne Nelson Boulder RC Apr 28 Stanford Jordan Inv
32:41.98 15 Lisa Uhl Nike Apr 28 Stanford Jordan Inv
32:52.78 4 Megan Goethals Washington Mar 29 Stanford Inv
32:57.78 16 Natasha LaBeaud Brooks Apr 28 Stanford Jordan
anonymouse wrote:
Government Cheese wrote:Being allowed under the rules and being ethical are not always entirely synonymous
Care to explain this?
Yes, for example, also allowed under the rules but likely unethical:
- Jim Crow laws
- Preventing women from voting
- Nazi death camps
- Apple not paying any taxes
The list can go on............
What's worse, Nazi death camps or Apple not paying any taxes or mixed races for qualification or a godawful slow men's 5k?
Dang.... you got me.
A godawful slow men's 5k final. (but just slightly ahead of Nazi death camps, those were pretty bad, too)
If the race were in England the fans would have booed and thrown rotten tomatoes.
Burt Wondersong wrote:
b) that you would need Nike-like money to stage your own 10k to get the standard afterwards.
Nike-like money to get access to a track and three male runners who wouldn't even qualify for D3 nats? ROFL.
Would it be unethical if fans brought rotten tomatoes to a meet and threw them on the track at the 300 mark of a sit and kick W1500?
next wrote:
Would it be unethical if fans brought rotten tomatoes to a meet and threw them on the track at the 300 mark of a sit and kick W1500?
Heck, no. That would be getting their money's worth.