Joe Newton dealing with parents

Sounds like you need to move to a new school where you have the power to coach effectively. Either that or just threaten to leave. Say something along the lines of "I can't coach properly if I can't enforce my rules."

ddsf ddf ddeeee wrote:

Sounds like you need to move to a new school where you have the power to coach effectively. Either that or just threaten to leave. Say something along the lines of "I can't coach properly if I can't enforce my rules."

sounds like you are a babysitter, allowing the kids to add an activity to their hs experience.

anybody who misses a workout is in the JV race/meet? 3x and you get a JV letter for the season.

Concerned Citizen wrote:

What is an "IB kid"?

International Baccalaureate Program.

kind of a new thing in USA high schools, basically an honors program but definitely more rigorous than normal "advanced" or AP/honors courses.

kids have to take courses their junior & senior year of HS in Science, Arts, Social Studies/Sciences, and Math as well as final exams their senior year in these courses, and write a long essay about a topic in one of these areas, the goal being to develop an overall well-rounded student who is prepared for college. students also have to do certain hours in extracurricular/service activities.

they tried implementing it at my HS where I teach and so far the program is a total failure. Out of a High School of 1500 kids only 40 students total signed up for the program out of the first two graduating classes offered the IB program.

Only 14 (5 from the first class) actually ended up getting the official diploma and completing the program, the rest dropped out or just didnt meet the requirements, and gave up because it was too hard.

Seems like an unnecessarily harsh punishment to me. I can think of legitimate reasons for an athlete to miss practice - illness, injury, college visits, extra tutoring, death in the family, family emergency.

Some things are more important than sports, and the adult in the situation should recognize that.

There's missing practice (dentist,family issues, etc), then there is skipping practice. A zero miss practice (I'm sorry) it's lazy- Joe Newton or not.

There is room for reason in the situation. Even if the "punishment" is to run JV that week.. whatever.

Now you will need to prune the team. It's just got to happen, but if you do it correctly you'll get a better team full of motivated kids. I'd rather coach 3-5 of them, than 20 slackers.

The team dynamic changes. It goes from where skipping and laying about are "the thing to do" to being seen as lazy and shunned. You just have to be brave enough to flip the script. (It also helps if your team starts winning.)

sgf wrote:...I can think of legitimate reasons for an athlete to miss practice - illness, injury, college visits, extra tutoring, death in the family, family emergency.

Some things are more important than sports, and the adult in the situation should recognize that.

It's a slippery slope on where to draw the line regarding absences from team training sessions. Everything you wrote, and more, is legit, but where do you draw the line?

When team members ask me about missing training, I turn it around and ask them what they think would happen if they were on the Soccer team or the Basketball team or the Hockey team. Do those guys start/play if they miss practice sessions during the week? When I talk to the coaches of those teams at my school they look at me like I have 2 heads when I ask "what do you do to team members who miss practice?" Answer from them, "who misses practice?"

I get that team sports are different from individual sports. You can't conduct Hockey practice very effectively if half of each line is missing. Individual sports you can usually still get in effective training even if you can't make the team session. With me, if you're injured or have an illness (not so bad you can't get out of bed) I expect you check in when the team meets for training or beforehand. Family issue, I expect to be contacted so that we can help out if it's appropriate. Extra tutoring, job interview, same deal but I need to know 24 hours in advance. Stuff that I won't excuse absences for...hall meetings...club meetings...work study hours that are set up during our set team training times, etc. First unexcused absence you meet with me. Second you meet with the team captains. Third you turn in your uniform, no questions asked.

Ok, so there you go. It sounds like your goals for the XC team differ from the school's goals for the team. I don't see you winning this one. If the school wants XC to be a team where the priority is kids being a part of the team and getting their varsity letter regardless of them actually earning it so it looks good on their IB transcript then that's what it's going to be.

If I were you I'd set up 2 groups. One is the group you work with, the kids who show up and are into in. The other is the group that the school is basically making you keep on the team that you don't think deserve to be a part of the team. As long as it's not a budget issue for you, enter both groups all in races you can. The group who doesn't care, you build a training template at the beginning of the year for what their week looks like and don't bother changing it. That way you don't need to spend any effort during the season thinking about how to train that group. It is what it is, who cares how they do - they sure don't! The other group (those who actually want to be a part of the team, show up daily, make the effort), those are the ones you pull aside for the real workout of the day.

Set it up that way and you can keep the school and the IB program head happy and still help the kids who want to be good runners. And you don't end up getting all pi**ed off every day when you're getting all the excuses from kids who just can't be there (because they don't prioritize the team). They show up, they don't show up - who cares?

d2xccoach wrote:

It's a slippery slope on where to draw the line regarding absences from team training sessions. Everything you wrote, and more, is legit, but where do you draw the line?

Exactly! I had a kid whose mother died early in the season. He only missed one day. Then later in the fall his grandma died and he missed another day. So I kicked him off the team. That taught him and the rest of the team about priorities.

Way to go Joe!

You are correct and I have a choice....deal with it or find another gig, which I will have absolutely no problem getting. I'm not one to say the grass is greener on the other side, but there is something to be said for doing things on your own terms. I tried the split squad idea last fall and that was a huge no go. I resigned today and my time will end at the end of track season. When I showed up to practice today I was surrounded by 5 kids who need tomorrow off to do community service hours and they were to lazy to do them over spring break. Ha...we have 2 weeks spring break and we just came back. Go figure.

It doesn't surprise me that the split squad was a no-go - These slackers are basically mama's boys who think the world revolves around them and expects your attention regardless of how badly they are poisoning the team environment. If you were in a position where you could get rid of them, do it.

You are absolutely ignorant for making this comment. That is a terribly small sample. There is not even the slightest bit of evidence for the existence of God. If you have imaginary friends, keep them to yourself.

I coach a large and successful girls XC team in the Fall, a small but competitive girls and boys track in the Winter, and another small but successful boys track in the Spring.

First off there are huge differences between the genders and how they relate to their coach. There are also big differences in where the kids come from. Private school kids are different then public school kids on the whole.

There is also a difference between distance runners and sprinters. About 10% of my distance runners are a challenge. 95% of my sprinter are a huge challenge. When I say challenge I mean guys getting arrested, drugs, alcohol, vandalism, stealing, fighting, etc... You want to save all of these kids because you care about them but sometimes you have to let them go for the sake of the other team members.

I do allow kids to take off from practice depending on what it is they are doing. If it's practice for a school play, playing an instrument with the local orchestra, or getting the schoolwork they were behind in done I will support them. I have often met them later to supervise their own practice or we go over a training schedule that fits in with what they are doing.

That being said not every excuse is a good one. When a kid is driving a BMW and flashing their I-phone when I'm driving a Ford and have a flip phone then work is not a good excuse to leave practice. You have to use your judgement.

If they don't tell me PRIOR to practice they pick up an unexused absence no matter what the reason. Three of those and they are dismissed. Just like parenting a child if you do not follow through on this rule they will not respect it. Last year I let 6 kids go. It was hard to do but now my team is in a better place.

Today for instance out of a team of 19 boys two were not there. They were sick and out of school. Nobody skipped out. Don't get me wrong either. This didn't happen overnight. It took a few years. Every now and then (usually after I praise them) they will test me just like a child does with a parent.

Set the rules down with your team and follow through on them. But, also treat the kids respectfully. My kids know I'm the boss and I'm their coach and not a friend but they also know I care for them and have their best interests in mind. I've been told by many of the teachers at the school that the kids I have on my team only listen to me. They are often confused why that is. If you care about them and show it they will come around.

Then there are those times where the rules don't apply at all. I have a mentally challenged kid who comes and goes when he can. The other kids understand and support him. I have another athlete who has a family member who is terminally ill. I don't hold him to the attendance rules based on his situation. When he shows I make sure he works hard though. Lately he hasn't missed many practices. Other kids on the team ask why I go light on him and I ask them if they would rather be in his situation and then they seem to understand.

Sometimes when your athletes are more well rounded they will perform better. For example it takes the pressure off of the race when they have an audition the day after a meet. They tend to run looser and most often perform better. When their whole focus is track or XC they are way more likely to freeze up.

It's also good to make your team as fun as possible. We do our core workouts as a team before actual individual practice begins and I have a radio out for the kids to listen to music. We have awards for hard workers throughout the week on Fridays. Every now and then when they are really beat up we'll play ultimate frisbee and I'll fire the grill up when we do. We typically have a special trip we take as a team that we fundraise for. You'd be surprised how much the kids love to stop and get an ice cream after a tough meet. Think outside of the box. Make your team funner then whatever else they may be doing. Then they would rather be there with you! It's possible to work very hard and have fun also. In December and January we had a "apocolypse workout" and a "fiscal cliff workout". Both workouts were incredibly difficult (I know because I joined them for the "apocolypse workout")but the kids embraced them both.

Praise the athletes when they show. When things are going good talk to them about how fit they are, tell them how proud you are of them, "that was a good practice", etc. Be positive.

Pick good captains. These athletes should have the ability to lead a practice.

It's true that we live in a different age then what we were used to but there are still ways to keep your team together. Be patient. It's hard to change the culture of a team but once you do it gets easier.

It is definitely difficult to have hard standards for absences these days. If your boys team has 100-200 guys on it, you can probably get away with having some pretty strict rules and not miss a beat, but rather be better for it. But take a small school like the one I coach at for instance where the middle and high school boys and girls distance program combined has less than 25 kids on it and fielding a girls team each year is harder than actually coaching. You just can't have a hard line because you will have to either stick to your word or have the kids know you don't mean what you say. I have a lot of turnover regardless, losing 2-3 kids each season and not always replacing them before the end of the year, thus trying to get 5-6 new faces each fall.

At a small school you just don't have the ability to be too strict, and the issue is a lot of the parents don't see cross country and track on the same level as other sports and thus don't fully understand why it's necessary to go everyday. If you are a coach, I promise you that at some point you will get very frustrated and think about quitting, which I don't blame you for, but before you do so just consider a few things: Can you achieve your goals without giving up too much of your disciplinary philosophy? Can you make your practices more time efficient to make coming to practice not feel like such a burden to the kids? Can you outline a lettering policy which will more easily separate those who just want to be on the team from those who want to compete for the team? If so, you should try and make it work one more time.

In all honesty, despite supposedly being one of the most participated sports in the country I don't find that many kids, even the good ones, have a lot of interest in cross country/distance running. There are so many more "fun" things to do as a kid now, most don't really want to do the hard stuff like distance running. You may have to bend a little to spice things up (like play speedball or something). But always, don't turn your team into a club, have them earn the fun stuff.

"In all honesty, despite supposedly being one of the most participated sports in the country I don't find that many kids, even the good ones, have a lot of interest in cross country/distance running."

Nobody grows up wanting to be a distance runner. It's something forced on you do to circumstances. Those circumstance are usually that you are too small, skinny, or just generally bad at all other athletic endeavors.

terminally degreed wrote:

Wow you guys are weird. Hardliners. I'm a club coach and have had kids place top 10 in the US. If kid skips practice it's his/her loss. But kick them off the team for missing a practice or being late, that's just crazy.

No, that's not crazy. That is teaching kids to be responsible and hold accountable to commitments. When you say you're going to do it, you stick to it and do it. Heck I'm not too far removed from high school and I remember being on my team and thinking about all the kids who had so much talent squandering it because they were lazy and did not have high commitment and low morals.

Some of them just thought they could do things their own way in everything and it came back to bite every single one of them in life.

So be strict, not passive. My coach was a smart man, but he was extremely passive. The team suffered, the kids suffered, and he even suffered because of it

Best response on the thread so far

The kids who at first didn't give care will see that you are putting a lot more attention into the good squad. Most still won't care, but there are a few who will want to truly feel part of a team.

In addition, an additional suggestion is if your guys are doing training properly, send only the priority group to a big travel invitational (something like Mt Sac, Holmdel or Chicago Lakefront)

I am an Ex York runner from about 10 years ago and I am pretty sure the policy that was used back in my day is still used today.

2 Unexcused Miss Practices - Kicked off the team

2 Unexcused Tardies - Kicked off the team

Now obviously, if you were sick or had some type of school project, you needed to get a note from the teacher/parent. Or if you were on a college visit or something official, then it was okay too.

Coach Newton was very strict with this, he always told us that if you show up late for work or miss work without any reason, you were most likely going to get fired. We had a few guys back in my day that were in the top 7 and still were kicked off because of this.

We had to sacrifice a lot, but what it does is that it keeps the kids that want to be there on the team. Usually the kids that skipped practice or were late were not committed, and no matter how talented they were, York didn't need them.

Now remember, York also has 150-200 kids on the team, so losing 20 kids through the year to this process was not always a big deal.

The worse thing any York guy wanted to do was let Mr. Newton down and this is why you made the sacrifice and showed up to practice on time.

cisco wrote:

Nobody grows up wanting to be a distance runner. It's something forced on you do to circumstances. Those circumstance are usually that you are too small, skinny, or just generally bad at all other athletic endeavors.

Dude, just because you're a total p*ssy doesn't mean you need to hate on other runners.

Kudos to the coaches who make a policy, stick to it, and cut kids when they make a habit of avoiding practice. As soon as you get those troublemakers out of the picture you set the stage for years of a more dedicated team. It's commonly hard the first year or two after doing this to struggle with doing well, but if you make it through a couple of years by holding to a good policy it bodes well for a committed team down the line.