Texas Relays Steeple. Error, or just another way to do it?

David Katz wrote:

This is a standard problem with all outside water jumps and even a greater problem when a track that has 9 - 48" lanes.

The preferred layout is for an inside water jump but unfortunately many tracks are multi use facilies and an outside jump is needed.

The IAAF allows for some flexablity for the placement.

We had this problem at the 2007 World Championships in Osaka, Japan. The Technical Delegates decided to increase the width of the first hurdle by placing two hurldes next to each other.

I first came across this problem when I served as the Technical Director of the 1998 Goodwill Games. Working with Bob Hersh (then a member of the IAAF Technical Committee and now Senior VP of the IAAF) I measured out a box (alley) start for the first two barriers with the break line on the back similiar to the 800.

That sounds like something that could become a guideline for facilities with an outside jump.

Outside and nine lanes must shorten the run up to ,what 40 meters? Not unusual to see 15 lineup in a steeple race funneling them all into about 2 and a half lanes so soon is asking for trouble.

Innovative solution.

S Curve wrote:

Error. You remove the first barrier until the second lap.

Correct! No way you should be clearing a barrier that close to the start. I've seen it, though and yes, it is when the barrier is outside.

Fact injection wrote:

For reference, here's a video of the 3000SC from Texas last year, which was done the same way-

http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=60&do=videos&video_id=62674

The starting line is right before the finish line, which is right before the 1st barrier.

Which is laid out correctly. End of thread.

ray wrote:

Im not sure any of you are right unless I'm reading the responses wrong.

malmo wrote:

The correct answer has been posted many times. It is not rocket science.

ray wrote:

Unfortunately it wasn't posted many times in this thread and apparently many here think it is rocket science. Malmo you should know better.

1) Jogger to be, Er..., and myself all posted the correct answer. "Steepler a while back" had the correct answer in his head but he typed out wrong.

It is not rocket science. Third graders should be able to get it right. YOU should know better too.

David Katz wrote:

The IAAF allows for some flexablity for the placement.

We had this problem at the 2007 World Championships in Osaka, Japan. The Technical Delegates decided to increase the width of the first hurdle by placing two hurldes next to each other.

Cool story, bro.

Confused Briton wrote:

Please tell me this is a joke.

* wrote:

With an oustide barrier, you have a short run up to the first barrier and then a longer run between barriers after that.

Well, the short run up to the first barrier has been discussed thoroughly here.

The longer run between barriers is because a lap is longer than 400m when you run outside of the track to go over the water jump, but there are the same amount of barriers per lap.

Sure, buddy, sure wrote:

David Katz wrote:

The IAAF allows for some flexablity for the placement.

We had this problem at the 2007 World Championships in Osaka, Japan. The Technical Delegates decided to increase the width of the first hurdle by placing two hurldes next to each other.

Cool story, bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_s6ahuPCwQ

He misjudged his steps or tripped. I can't see how the course setup affected that.

Fact injection wrote:

He misjudged his steps or tripped. I can't see how the course setup affected that.

Did not say anything about the fall. The video was to show that David Katz just made up a story about the 2007 World Championships.

David Katz made in a point to say that the Technical Delagates decided to put 2 barriers next to each other on the first barrier at the 2007 World Championships. The video proves that he made that up.

Here's the video of the SC final at the 2000 Olympics in Sidney - it has the same outside water pit setup so they are at the 1st barrier at about 10 seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShmVROHwVmE

It's the same basic setup as OP is talking about at Texas.

Also, in the video the German takes a spill on that hurdle-maybe from crowding, although it's hard to say.

Fact injection wrote:

Also, in the video the German takes a spill on that hurdle-maybe from crowding, although it's hard to say.

Or maybe it's the stupid fv

Malmo, I did read the responses wrong that was what I was referring to. That and the number of people that just got it wrong. Yes, three responses including yours out of the what ? 20 or so? were correct. That's why I said You should know better. Sorry for the confusion, I was alluding to the typical LR responses and I did it myself!

I had no preference over inside vs outside water pits. Ran close to 8:40 on both but never popped the big one to get into the low 8:30 range.

Don't know if you guys realize this but anything over the 800M race taker a back set to all other events in Texas. Texas does not care about the steeple chase or any of those events. With the exception of the high school girls mile, all other events results were medeoicre.

Dear "Sure buddy, sure",

I think you owe me an apology.

The video shown was that of the prelimary round.

After the fall is when the Technical Delegates decided to use the double barrier for the finals-

Video of th finals in Osaka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWfKWNnUnZU

Obviously the fall was not at the start but the Technical Delegates thought it was still an issue so they made the change for the finals.

I assume the Goodwill box required the additional barrier be moved after the first jump-- perhaps next to the one in traditional position as they did later in Osaka.I think using a box is the way to go when you have a large field and outside water.

David Katz wrote:

Obviously the fall was not at the start but the Technical Delegates thought it was still an issue so they made the change for the finals.

If I remember correctly we moved the additional barriers in the outside box after the first lap for the Goodwill Games.

There is a very nerdy thing with the Osaka track if you watch the video closely, the Japanese do not use cones for the steeple or separating lanes (10,000 start). They use small curb segments. This would require a slightly different measurment - 30 cm from the curb instead of 20 cm from a cone. I asked the Osaka Officials about this and they confirmed the 30 cm measurement.

Also, it is the only track I have ever worked on that had a retractable curb. The curb was spring loaded so when you stepped on it it become level with the track (step on it again and it goes into it's original postion)...very cool.

Spring loaded curb... did it work? I.e. did it keep people from going down/getting hurt when they stepped on it? Anyway, creative solution to the problem, well done.

I wish we used the double width first barrier more often for outside water pits. It's hairy to hit a barrier with traffic and before people have settled in. Not that I can steeple anymore.

still waiting for an apology!