Didn't see the race but from the photos it looks like he is shadowing O'Hare then with 600 to go realizes that O'Hare is having a bad one and then tries to close the gap on Lawi...too late.
Didn't see the race but from the photos it looks like he is shadowing O'Hare then with 600 to go realizes that O'Hare is having a bad one and then tries to close the gap on Lawi...too late.
Nick Symmonds had the ability to go sub 1:43 all along: he just never got into a race where the pace was fast enough that in his usual last place through 400m, he would be in position to run 1:42.xx. Why always last place through 400m? It is obvious that he is mentally limiting himself. Almost all American distance runners do it. To become champions they have to put more on the line and risk dying at the end.
jjjjjjj wrote:
Nick Symmonds had the ability to go sub 1:43 all along: he just never got into a race where the pace was fast enough that in his usual last place through 400m, he would be in position to run 1:42.xx. Why always last place through 400m? It is obvious that he is mentally limiting himself. Almost all American distance runners do it. To become champions they have to put more on the line and risk dying at the end.
Wrong question. Ask why about the racers who go out in 1st/2nd and get crushed as they fade. He went out like the 143high/144 guy he was and doesn't try to pretend he can handle a 50 flat first 400. He took his game to a higher level in 2012 peaking perfectly. People seem to confuse not wanting to win, with not being the best.
Lawi ran a tactically strong race, relative to his strengths. He probably has the most endurance of any runner in the field (based on his PR's at longer distances), so he didn't want to make it a kicker's race. Everyone else was hoping for something more tactical but he didn't give it to them. Same way German won NCAA's in 2009.
Mrr82 wrote:
jjjjjjj wrote:Nick Symmonds had the ability to go sub 1:43 all along: he just never got into a race where the pace was fast enough that in his usual last place through 400m, he would be in position to run 1:42.xx. Why always last place through 400m? It is obvious that he is mentally limiting himself. Almost all American distance runners do it. To become champions they have to put more on the line and risk dying at the end.
Wrong question. Ask why about the racers who go out in 1st/2nd and get crushed as they fade. He went out like the 143high/144 guy he was and doesn't try to pretend he can handle a 50 flat first 400. He took his game to a higher level in 2012 peaking perfectly. People seem to confuse not wanting to win, with not being the best.
Symmonds wasn't the best and no one is arguing that. How do you know he couldn't have gone faster? He didn't take his game to a higher level.
In 2009 he got 6th at the World Championships (Very tactical ). In 2011 he got 5th allowing himself to get boxed in with 200 to go. Does Symmonds do anything different at the Olympics? Of course not, he gets 5th never putting himself in a position to medal.
You don't seem to understand that no one is arguing that Symmonds could have won. Going into the Olympics Amos and Kitum were only 1:43 and 1:44 guys respectively. That didn't stop them from going balls to the wall. They put themselves in positions for medals and earned them. Symmonds ran like a chump. What color medal did he get? O right...
No need to make excuses for Ryan Hill. In his video he said he raced like a baby. Laws ran at slightly faster than sub-4 pace., well within the whole fields ability. I was surprised to hear he thinks himself a miler even after college? Any way he isn't with Schumachers group upon graduation?
jjjjjjj wrote:
Nick Symmonds had the ability to go sub 1:43 all along: he just never got into a race where the pace was fast enough that in his usual last place through 400m, he would be in position to run 1:42.xx. Why always last place through 400m? It is obvious that he is mentally limiting himself. Almost all American distance runners do it. To become champions they have to put more on the line and risk dying at the end.
Yeah, Khadevis Robinson won what, 8 Diamond league races, a couple of World Championships and an Olympic gold, right?
Pretty amazing how many people that do not understand running and racing like to post here with their insight.
Just watched the race. Hill messed up bad. I didn't realize just how much ground he spotted Lawi.
Hill is on the right track. He's developed a hell of a kick and he's getting stronger aerobically. He'll figure it out soon. He should join the Salazar group after college.
I love when these kind of threads come up. We're all bashing tactics and "balls" and stuff. You know, the stuff you don't really need to have when you're kicking hard for 8th place in your D3 Twilight meet 5k. What a pack of losers.
the only alternative to going out last is going out in first???
Sure he coulda won it, but he didn't
Hill would have lost anyway. Lawi came out an hour and 45 minutes later and dominated again. He had plenty in the tank for any challengers.
Symmonds didn't win a medal, therefore he ran like a chump.
Brilliant. Or, maybe, Symmonds ran the best race he could and there were men in the field who were simply better that day.
But I'll be sure to remember your sage wisdom in the future. Next time I'm racing against guys faster than me in a really fast race, I'll just sprint into medal position and die badly the second half of the race. That way I won't be called a sissy.
I'm being sarcastic to make a point: your argument doesn't make sense.
It would have been interesting had Hill kept thins interesting early on.
The race was bizarre as Lalang didn't go out that fast.
That being said, runners have certain ways they like to run.
For example, Robby Andrews is great at coming off the pace. That gets him in trouble in some miles though as he's way way back.
Similarly, Hill likes to come off the pace.
Go watch his Millrose 3:54.89
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJMoAeHd8ew
Look at how far back he is. He's close to 4-seconds off the lead at halfway. Now they want out blazing fast in that race so he probably ran pretty even.
But in both races, he was way back of Lalang at half-way and got close at the end.
Oh, I get it now wrote:
Symmonds didn't win a medal, therefore he ran like a chump.
Brilliant. Or, maybe, Symmonds ran the best race he could and there were men in the field who were simply better that day.
But I'll be sure to remember your sage wisdom in the future. Next time I'm racing against guys faster than me in a really fast race, I'll just sprint into medal position and die badly the second half of the race. That way I won't be called a sissy.
I'm being sarcastic to make a point: your argument doesn't make sense.
I never said that if you didn't medal you ran like a chump. In one of my earlier posts on this thread I even credited Aman and Kaki for at least trying to medal. They gave themselves a shot.
You just don't get it. Why race for 5th in the Olympics? Wouldn't you rather get 6th or 7th knowing that you at least tried for a medal?
I think it's safe to assume he wanted to win. His plan was probably to hang back and kick the hell out of it, but he waited a little too long. Let's not pretend like any of us have been in this situation Also, we shouldn't be too self-confident that we would always make the best tactical decision when push comes to shove.
I think Symmonds got caught off guard at the start of the Olympic 800. Rushida pushes the pace and no one can close on him. Nick got too far back too early. Reminds me of Manzano. Awesome kicker in a tactical race. Fades fast in paced Diamond League meets. Maybe it is time for Nick to move up to 1500 and see what he can do. He's not going to touch Rushida!
2 things people are missing. To say Lawi had plenty left in the tank is flat out wrong. Coming off the turn he saw Hill and started grimacing, pumping his arms like mad. He held him off but he certainly didn't pull away as his form and face would indicate.
Second, Hill almost always goes straight to the back. Watch every race he has run and you'll almost always see he purposely goes out in last. He wanted to win and went out mid pack. After the first couple laps he was already near the front recognizing the gap that was forming. As soon as he saw the main contender, O'Hare, try to bridge the gap he tucked in behind him. He couldn't predict that O'Hare was dead and it took him a while to go around.
Those aren't excuses, he lost because Lawi was the better on the day. But to say he went out slow trying to kick for the win and that Lawi had something left is wrong. Please watch the video and tell me otherwise.