GerryLINDGREN calling out HSers! Race, NOT pace

GERRY IS RIGHT ON WITH THE WHOLE "RACE NOT PACE" MENTALITY. YOU SEE IT EVERYWHERE. RUNNERS DON'T RACE ANYMORE. THEY PACE. POINT BLANK AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT. YOU HAVE A H.S. KID THAT CAN RUN 4 FLAT MILE YET HE DOESNT PUSH THE ENVELOPE WHEN HE ENTERS A RACE WITH ELITES? WHY? IT MAKES NO SENSE. MARY CAIN BUSTED OUT OF THE GATE AND "RACED" FOR HER LIFE AND SMASHED THE RECORD! THAT SHOULD BE A WAKE UP CALL FOR EVERYONE. NICE JOB GERRY FOR CALLING IT LIKE YOU SEE IT! AND "YES" HE'S THE GREATEST GUY EVER, WOULDNT HURT A FLEA...WELL MAYBE A FLEA IF IT WERE BITING HIM. BUT JUST A FUN, LOVING AND INSPIRING HUMAN BEING. I LOVE YOU GERRY. DONT EVER CHANGE.

Yeah, he was a dick to his family. And?

What exactly has that got to do with his ideas about running? Why don't we examine *those* and, while we're talking about running, let the NRR stuff go.

Doclove wrote:

So he is the only runner to get divorced

Get real

There's a difference between getting a divorce and leaving your family, cutting off all contact except for one note left on the kitchen table: "Get a divorce. Sell the business."

....OH, AND A BETTER THING IS THAT HE TALKS/CHATS WITH EVERYONE ON HIS FACEBOOK PAGE. GUYS HE DOESNT EVEN KNOW. GO FIGURE. PERHAPS THE GREATEST HS RUNNER IN AMERICAN HISTORY, ONE, IF NOT THE BEST EVER COLLEGIATE RUNNER EVER, AND AN OLYMPIAN...TALKING TO NORMAL HUMANS LIKE ALL OF US ON LETSRUN.COM. THE GUY IS GREAT! THANKS AGAIN GERRY LINDGREN. ALL TIME GREATEST RUNNER IN AMERICAN HISTORY! OH, AND BY THE WAY, THE GERRY LINDGREN 3 MILE IS COMING UP IN MARCH IF YOURE INTERSTED IN RUNNING IN IT. THAT IS, IF YOURE FAST ENOUGH. :-)

If the quote from the OP is truly authentic, I have to say that I truly agree with Gerry on this one. And for those who are attacking his character, please stop the self-righteous, judgmental, "better-than-though" bull. You bring nothing to this sight but additional narcisistic ways of thinking that adds nothing to our sport or this board. Get lost and go judge yourself.

Regarding the whole "race not pace" issue, Gerry is spot on. Suppose Cheserek wasn't going for the record and simply ran as hard as he could to finish as high as possible? Sure, he wouldn't have run 8:09 and won. But, I believe he'd be a lot more under the old 8:40 record. It's similar to Webb's 3:53 mile years ago. When Webb was in that race, he definitely had 3:55 in mind, but it was obvious the kid was racing and trying to pick off as many guys as possible. Imagine if Cheserek had that same approach; I'm willing to believe he'd be closer to 8:25-8:30.

"I WALK! I HAVE ALWAYS WALKED! I walked on water when it wasn't done. People used to run to the local scribe when I walked on the water. I have been stoned 17 times for walking on the water. People used to drop their wine and manna when I walked past them on the water. Every clergyman I walked past screamed in the biblical days. There was a church going revolution that developed around my walking. Now everyone walks on the water. There is not a city in all the world where people do NOT walk. People live longer now. The average lifespan in Jerusalem when I started walking was 37 years. Today's lifespan for a Believer is Eternal. That's an infinite improvement! An inconceivable lifespan has been added because of the walking revolution. I plan on increasing that lifespan into double infinite no copies infinity. The only reason we all die in our human form is because of judgment. I came back to life. If I can come back to life, someone can come back to life twice. Coming back to life is within our grasp and I will light the way for all to follow." ~ Jesus (maybe said sometime)

Cocaine's a hell of a drug, eh Gerry?

red glare wrote:

He shat on his family without remorse. We can (and should) find far better people to esteem, even among fast former runners. Lindgren put himself on an island, pun intended, so just leave him there. Again, we can do better.

What if the truth about us humans is that we only do what we're capable of doing — you included. Physically, emotionally, socially, etc. I'm sure you've done some pretty shitty things in your life, too, but everyone else's shit smells worse, right. Lindgren did what he did. It wasn't commendable, wasn't pretty, and had far-reaching consequences for his family ... all this is true. But to say "he could've done better but chose not to" or "I could've done better" is just one of those fictions we live in. I say you do what you're actually capable of, and the proof of what you were ACTUALLY capable of is in what you ACTUALLY did. That speaks louder than 1,000 imaginative fictions that we use to trash other people (and ourselves.). And it's not at all productive to either party - the blamer or the one being blamed — to take the latter route. The blamer (you, in this case) just gets further entrenched in priggishness and self-righteousness; the blamee gets reminded of something (s)he can never ever undo. No that's productive!

We are mostly blind to who other people are, what makes them tick, and what they're backstory is. It would be good for you to keep this in mind as you go through life.

We are, of course, learning animals, and there's always the possibility of better choices in the future, but we especially need good people around us to do that, not people who shit on us for shitting on others. Encouragement.

Most of Gerry's points on the 2-mile record are actually good, and if some hero of yours said them, you'd be singing a different tune:

- my record should never have lasted this long

- we run to race, not to pace

- 1 bold, courageous runner inspires 10 others, who each inspire 10 others

Doclove wrote:

So he is the only runner to get divorced

Get real

Is O.J. Simpson the only football player to ever have a spat with his ex? So why are people so down on the guy?

Saying that Gerry "got divorced" is a pretty serious understatement. The coward slipped out in the middle of the night and claims that the family he left behind doesn't exist. Is it the worst thing anyone has ever done? Of course not. But it I certainly don't respect the guy.

I don't know how any halfway decent human being could understand Gerry's actions. If I had to leave my kids for some reason, it would be absolutely devastating to me. I could no sooner walk out on my family than I could cut off my own left leg. I could never respect Gerry or any other "man" who could do such a thing.

Nappy Roots wrote:

And for those who are attacking his character, please stop the self-righteous, judgmental, "better-than-though" bull. You bring nothing to this sight but additional narcisistic ways of thinking that adds nothing to our sport or this board. Get lost and go judge yourself.

So it's not our place to judge Gerry, but it is your place to judge us? Please explain why you are the only one here who is allowed to judge the character of others.

I love when Gerry quotes get posted!

I think he is the fastest "Geek" of all time!

For negative posters.....get over yourselves....GOD is watching!

Assuming that the jury got it wrong in the Simpson case, don't you think Simpson's ex would have been better off if OJ had done what Gerry did and simply vanished?

It would be easy to dismiss Gerry as a crank and a nutjob, were it not for the steady stream of bold, indominable champions he has coached out of Hawaii.

Realistically, the distance between the world's top runners and a HS phenom like Gerry was much less, BITD. It was not unreasonable for a prodigy like Gerry to race Clarke, head to head.

But the growth of professional track, and the lengthened careers of professionals, have widened that gap very considerably. On the males' side, a truly HS-aged American boy--even with a talent/ability as phenomenal as Gerry's--doesn't belong on the same track as a top pro.

Truth Sayer wrote:

An excerpt from a SI article:

To me - what Mary Cain is doing now is closer to what Ryun/Lindgren/Pre/etc.. were doing way back then - that is competing against pros and giving them a run for their money. This is something our Kenyan HS hero didn't do on Saturday.

Poor comparison. The women Mary was racing are inferior to the men Ed was racing and, truth be told, Mary is more talented relative to the best in the world. Mary is about, what, 10-12 seconds behind the best 1500 runners in the world? And Ed is more than 30 behind the best 3k runners in the world. Mary didn't try and race with the top Ethiopian woman in Boston, did she?

isn't it ironic wrote:

/quote]

So it's not our place to judge Gerry, but it is your place to judge us? Please explain why you are the only one here who is allowed to judge the character of others.[/quote]

Some questions are sophisticated ways of subtly defending irrational beliefs and nontruths in a way that appears to be innocently asking the obvious. Your question falls into that category. And I will be the last person to say I never judged, because I "judge" several folks' recent performances and believe many of them to be PED influenced. But the things here about Gerry as a father, a person, etc, etc really takes away from the point of racing vs pacing. Gerry's ability to be a great father has NOTHING to do with his statement about our culture of competition.

He **** on his family without remorse. We can (and should) find far better people to esteem, even among fast former runners. Lindgren put himself on an island, pun intended, so just leave him there. Again, we can do better.

red glare wrote:

He **** on his family without remorse. We can (and should) find far better people to esteem, even among fast former runners. Lindgren put himself on an island, pun intended, so just leave him there. Again, we can do better.

So what? He got tired of his ugly ____ and his stupid children. Happens all the time. Half of all marriages in Christian countries end up in divorces.

I agree with Gerry, I think a lot of the sub-4 efforts over the years fell apart because of pacing instead of racing. I've coached athletes who were state champs from small states and/or small school divisions who dropped major PRs in their freshman year. I would like to think all of it was great coaching, but I think a lot of them ran faster because of just running against faster athletes. Basically, they ran faster to be competitive.