Mary Cain and college?

quick draw mcgraw wrote:

you are clueless if you think female gymnasts and runners are similar. how many 25, 30 or 35 year old professional gymnasts do you know?

This particular situation is similar. Cain is in HS and is deciding right now whether to give up a college scholarship to run professionally. This is exactly what all elite gymnasts have to decide with they are 15 or 16.

This particular situation is similar. Cain is in HS and is deciding right now whether to give up a college scholarship to run professionally. This is exactly what all elite gymnasts have to decide with they are 15 or 16.

It's not really analogous. Female gymnasts are at their physical peak in their mid-teens. They will only decline with age. This is not true at all for runners. Gymnasts DO have to make up their minds whether to go pro or go to college when they're teenagers.

Cain, good as she is, could not really compete against the best in the world right now so her pro chances are minimal. Another thing to consider with female runners is many stop improving once their bodies develop in their late teens. Hasay is a good example. 5 years after setting a high school record as a junior and Hasay has barely improved her 1500 pr. It would have been a disaster for a shoe company to sign her after high school. I'm sure shoe companies will take a wait and see approach with Cain for at least two years.

Best thing for Cain to do for the next 2-3 years is go to school, train with Salazar, compete in open races.

Even if she has no intention of running on the team, she'd be smart to preserve her eligibility to help with admissions. She could end up at a place like Stanford and go pro the minute she enrolls, letting Nike cover all expenses.

"exactly"? you really are clueless. gymnasts have a tiny window to make money at their sport and it is when they are in their teens. you don't see 30 year old professional gymnasts. with running, you don't hit your peak until your late 20s and you can keep on running into your late 30s (deena) and beyond (joanie). for a gymnast, it's now or never in high school. for a runner, she can wait 4 more years and she won't age herself out of making money. however, she could burn herself or train/race stupidly for 4 years.

also, what high school seniors are 15? you are a very odd perspective.

Going to Princeton or Stanford for a bachelors degree is not the ticket to a future as some of you clueless ones keep arguing. Getting a bachelor's degree at most any accredited university will be pretty much equal in that she will still need that MBA or Science/Technical masters degree in order to punch her ticket. Assuming she has the mental abilities that some of you are so certain about, she will have no trouble securing very high grades at a standard university....high enough, and with her background, she would likely have no trouble getting into a top university for that Masters degree that will make a difference. Sorry to burst the bubble that some of you live in, but a bachelors degree, even from an Ivy League school is not a ticket to future success as it once may have been. So, going to a school like Oregon, one of the rare places where running matters, would seem perfect for her undergraduate years.

Another Runner wrote:

Just listening to her, she would probably be a perfect fit at a school like Liberty University.

There. Now it makes sense.

What kind of a Jack@$$ are you. I understand what Another Runner was saying. If you watch her interviews, she is obviously a bit of a free-spirit. And you haven't picked up on that yet?

Calling Your Not So Subtleness wrote:

What kind of a Jack@$$ are you. I understand what Another Runner was saying. If you watch her interviews, she is obviously a bit of a free-spirit. And you haven't picked up on that yet?

And a young woman of strong Christian faith, sort of like, oh, Josh Cox and Josh McDougal. You haven't picked up on THAT yet? OK, she's not named Josh, but be real here. And LU is much closer to home.

Agip - "she is't good enough to go to Europe"? She is currently in ~4:08 1500 shape and it is February 2013. She could VERY REALISTICALLY be a 4:05ish type by next year. How fast do you think someone needs to be to compete in Europe?

She should forget about school and just go pro. If she gets injured and things dont work out with running she can work for home depot. They employed Brian Sell.

College and a professional runners lifestyle mesh quite seamlessly. First run, maybe go on campus till noon, head out to campus around 2 in Jager's case for the workout. I could see Cain getting her undergrad and masters out east while training as a pro. Too it makes zero sense for her to not optimize these years as Webb has shown without proper guideance on training/ racing age one is easily chewed up by the collegiate system.

162430 wrote:

Agip - "she is't good enough to go to Europe"? She is currently in ~4:08 1500 shape and it is February 2013. She could VERY REALISTICALLY be a 4:05ish type by next year. How fast do you think someone needs to be to compete in Europe?

well lots of issues there - I was defining 'Europe' as the diamond league - I don't think she has earned a place in DL meets, although she could find 2nd tier meets all over the place.

her 9:38 is equal to a 4:12 1500 according to mcmillan. She ran 4:11 last yr. I don't want to start with the if/thens, but after millrose we should have a better idea of her development in the 1500 if she runs there. I think 4:05 would be a stretch next yr.

So I'll call her a 4:10 1500 girl now - I glanced through the 1500 results from last yrs DL meets - places 1-10:

Oslo: 402 - 4:08

Rome 3:56-4:06

Paris: 3:56 - 4:04

If you are right and she knocks down her 1500 by 6 seconds then sure, she is right there and could get in a meet, maybe. But that could be a stretch - that's a huge improvement, no?

But even as a 4:10 girl she could find meets to run in, if that is what you mean.

She'll go to Portland and be coached by Salazar, just as Lukas almost was.

she ran 4:11 last year when she was 15. she is WAY ahead of last year at this time. don't you think that it is kind of ridiculous that you think she will be all of 1 second faster 2 years after running 4:11 as a 15-year old? you also are being ridiculous conceding that she "maybe" can get into a meet with a 4:05. you might want to hide your hate a little better next time.

hmmm, hmmmm, hmmmm wrote:

What? She doesn't go to college?

This is the problem I had with Alan Webb's decision to leave Michigan and never finish school.

I thought Webb finished school at George Mason University with a BA in Economics. Is that not true?

As someone who is quite familiar with her hometown of Bronxville, believe she will go to an Ivy League college. Half her class go onto the Ivys, and their parents are alumni. This is a town where an average home costs over $1.5M for a traditional 4 BR, 2.5BA home. Also her father is a prominent doctor and she is a straight A student at a strong academic high school (Bronxville HS is essentially a private school. Graduating class is 100 kids and average SAT scores are nearly 1900). Her family will not have her attend a school like Oregon. No knock on Oregon for it's academics, but it is not an Ivy league education/reputation. If the Skype training is working, why change things. She doesn't need to live near Salazar.

She will have Nike pay for her undergrad and grad school. She will go pro under Salazar and then defer graduate school until her mid-20s and see where she is at the world level. Maybe one day she will be Eric Heiden. For those not familiar, he was just a multiple Olympic Gold Medal long track speed skater, who also became a professional cyclist competed in the Tour De France then went onto Stanford and is now a surgeon.

quick draw mcgraw wrote:

she ran 4:11 last year when she was 15. she is WAY ahead of last year at this time. don't you think that it is kind of ridiculous that you think she will be all of 1 second faster 2 years after running 4:11 as a 15-year old? you also are being ridiculous conceding that she "maybe" can get into a meet with a 4:05. you might want to hide your hate a little better next time.

you got me wrong - I love that girl. In a fan sense. But when she runs 4:05 let me know - She hasn't done it yet and I don't think she will this year. Maybe next year, but I doubt even that.

but if she does run 4:05 even then she is just barely in the diamond league window, except as a novelty, a way for a meet director to get publicity, and a way to bow to Nike/Al Sal.

Have to agree. Many don't understand where she is coming from. Very elite Ivy driven HS. It does matter where you go to college when considering Med, Law and MBA programs. Go look at the freshman medical class at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, UPenn. You won't see too many University of Oregon undergrads attending. This doesn't mean they are getting a "better" degree but don't be fooled by thinking you get a 4.0 and score high on the MCAT and the doors of Harvard swing open. I'm sure someone will get on here and say they did it but why take the chance? Especially since she has someone on the east coast who can watch her workouts and report to Al Sal.

Webb would have learned how to RACE had he stayed in college. That has plagued him his entire career. How can people put down Warhurst when it comes to middle distance running? DMR anyone? Diemer? Sully? Brannon? Willis? And many others. I wish I were subjected to such lousy coaching and training!