does anyone think Wang Junxia was clean?

Wang Junxia

World Champion 10,000m Stuttgart 1993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0IytBXo6HE

2nd fastest all time, shortly before breaking the WR

Nutella1 wrote:

We have a winner.

Take the short track games in CHINA out of the book and you got a very good runner, but certainly no freak of nature.

Wang's 29:31 is 1:20min SLOWER than her 2nd best performance, which is no. 94 of all times. Ok it was run in the rain at World Championships, so I believe she could have run much faster that day - probably 30:10 or so. But fact is, she didn't!

Again, you take the short Beijing track out of the equation and you got:

14:51 5k, 30:49 10k, 2:24:07 Marathon

OK, here is an argument why she was NOT (only) on drugs and the times are only because of the short track:

So her time over 10k improved by 1:20min. If there was a drug with which you are able to lower your 10k time by 1:20, wouldn't you think some other guys would have tried that, too.

Think about it, the 10k mens WR would be 25:00min. The 5k WR would be somewhere around 12 FLAT, very close to what most people on here believe is humanly NOT possible.

I am not denying that Wang was on drugs, but the Beijing results are because of the short track. EoT.

What could be wrote:

Her teammates smashed the 1500 record.

Wang went under the previous 1500 record herself in finishing second and is still 4th on the all-time list, behind three Chinese. This is what she did in a five-day span:

9/8 10K in 29:31

9/11 3K in 8:12

9/12 3K in 8:06

9/13 1500 in 3:51.92

It's ludicrous to he point of wanting to bray huge amounts of obnoxious laughter, like a donkey being tickled in the balls. But really, it's more tragic than comical.

If Flo Jo and Carmelita Jeter are clean then so is Wang Junxia....yep clean as a whilstle

I'm with the poster above. If we can reasonably infer that Wang was dirty because of her records, then, Paula was even more assuredly doping. 2:15 is better, much better, than 29:30. Heck, 2:15 is better than 8:06 or any of the Chinese records. It may be better than any record on the books -men's or women's.

Equivalently, if Paula wasn't doping, then, I'd be willing to believe that Wang was clean as well.

I feel that the track was not 400 meters, as the PEDs alone could not make that much of a significant change. the fact that they destroyed the track soon there after is very suspicious.

............ wrote:

I'm with the poster above. If we can reasonably infer that Wang was dirty because of her records, then, Paula was even more assuredly doping. 2:15 is better, much better, than 29:30. Heck, 2:15 is better than 8:06 or any of the Chinese records. It may be better than any record on the books -men's or women's.

Equivalently, if Paula wasn't doping, then, I'd be willing to believe that Wang was clean as well.

Radcliffe is 6.67 seconds per mile faster than anyone else in the marathon.

Wang is 8.21 seconds per mile faster than anyone besides her teammates at that meet in the 3,000.

Wang had also run a 29:31 "10,000" four days before the 8:06, and an 8:12 the day before. And it's easier to be dominant by a given amount in the marathon, as elite marathoners run marathons far less frequently than elite tracksters run track races shorter than 10K. You can be in top form for a half-dozen races from 1500 to 5000 every summer.

I'm not saying Paula was clean (I doubt that she was), only that Wang's exploits are even more off the chart, which takes some doing. But you make a good point -- very few people in track and field give any credence to Wang's records, but a lot of those same skeptics are loath to thing of Paula as a doper. That's not a complete double standard for the reasons stated above, but it's getting there.

They should toss out all womens records and start all over again.

I think we're quibbling here, but, I think you're using the wrong metric. Think of it this way: How many guys who have run 2:15 or faster have been unable to break 8:06 for 3000? 2:15 is - intrinsically - a better performance. Women hardly run the 3000 anymore. Conversely, how many guys can you think of that can run 8:06 (or, equivalently, an 8:45 two) but who couldn't come within a mile of 2:15?

Speaking for myself, I was more of an endurance guy and I came within a few ticks of 8:06 but not within 10 minutes of 2:15.

............ wrote:

I think we're quibbling here, but, I think you're using the wrong metric. Think of it this way: How many guys who have run 2:15 or faster have been unable to break 8:06 for 3000? 2:15 is - intrinsically - a better performance. Women hardly run the 3000 anymore. Conversely, how many guys can you think of that can run 8:06 (or, equivalently, an 8:45 two) but who couldn't come within a mile of 2:15?

Speaking for myself, I was more of an endurance guy and I came within a few ticks of 8:06 but not within 10 minutes of 2:15.

That is all very sound if you assume that male and female physiology is similar -- i.e., that women and men drop off by the same percentage as distance increases. This is evidently not the case, however. I figure that it's a testosterone/muscle-power thing, but top women marathoners have notoriously slow 5K/10K times in comparision -- even those who took the 10K seriously, like Tegla Loroupe (30:32/2:20:43). Ndereba never even broke 31:00 for 10K, yet ran 2:18:47 for 26.2; you would *never* see a dude with that kind of performance curve. No male I have ever known of or run with who's run 2:18 has been anything other than a 29-low type at worst.

Anyway, your point remains. I guess I'm just more disgusted at the Chinese because of how many runners are involved and the fact that their government/federation was obviously complicit.

CrankYanker wrote:

They should toss out all womens records and start all over again.

Why? Just because women these days aren't as fast anymore? You don't have any proof, no confession, no "reasoned decision" or investigation.

Maybe they should throw out Mike Powells 8.95m. After all, no man has jumped anywhere near that mark in two decades.

The track in Beijing was destroyed after the Chinese games and we will never know if one lap was 400m, 390, 380 or even 370.

Nutella1 wrote:

Maybe they should throw out Mike Powells 8.95m. After all, no man has jumped anywhere near that mark in two decades.

Runway short!

Mike Powell eat turtle!

Very suspicious!

I would think Powell's jump is highly suspicious because of how he managed to edge out a highly suspicious drug cheat in Carl Lewis (who I believe is the lance armstrong of sprinting)

............ wrote:

I think we're quibbling here, but, I think you're using the wrong metric. Think of it this way: How many guys who have run 2:15 or faster have been unable to break 8:06 for 3000? 2:15 is - intrinsically - a better performance. Women hardly run the 3000 anymore. Conversely, how many guys can you think of that can run 8:06 (or, equivalently, an 8:45 two) but who couldn't come within a mile of 2:15?

Speaking for myself, I was more of an endurance guy and I came within a few ticks of 8:06 but not within 10 minutes of 2:15.

Yes, but even you as a slow endurance type have more testosterone than a female runner

Nutella1 wrote:Maybe they should throw out Mike Powells 8.95m

yes

idiot

tokyo runway was illegal

the record shoud still be beamon

Arwen wrote:

Yup. Paula took a shower today. She also brushed her teeth. I'd say she's pretty clean.

You have no way of knowing that.

There have been threads on this before.

The short track idea isn't too likely. A number of known runners didn't have exceptional races there.

The thing you need to understand about Wang Junxia is she was one of two things.

1. The most talented female runner ever

2. The most talented female runner ever, and also on drugs

I don't give a damn, you don't set marks on a shelf so far away from everyone else, with or without drugs, without being the best damn runner the world has ever seen,

broken arrow wrote:

I feel that the track was not 400 meters, as the PEDs alone could not make that much of a significant change. the fact that they destroyed the track soon there after is very suspicious.

What about the times set at the other track:

Res. Athlete Nation Date Location

1. 3:50.46 Yunxia Qu China 11 September 1993 Beijing

2. 3:50.98 Bo Jiang China 18 October 1997 Shanghai

3. 3:51.34 Yinglai Lang China 18 October 1997 Shanghai

4. 3:51.92 Junxia Wang China 11 September 1993 Beijing

They were doping whatever. About 6 of his other athletes were busted later. What coach is going to have all these champions running fast times and then years later start doping them