Mathew Kisorio admits doping

What more could Renato say that he didn't already say. He has already said previously:- Some individual Kenyans may still chose to dope (despite cultural ethics)- Steroids work, even on KenyansRenato talks about "blood-doping". Kisorio's case is confounded by the presence of steroids, and other substances. Therefore, we can't use Kisorio as a counter-example, even if Kisorio received EPO injections.Reading the English translation, this interview looks like a lot of extrapolation and speculation on the part of the German journalist, Hajo Seppelt. Despite extensive investigative research, he seems to have limited evidence to support his speculations.

Dr. Farthing wrote:

We need Renato to comment on this.

is he qualify to chime in??!???!

Last week I argued that there was nothing special about 10k guys and they doped as much as anyone.

A bunch of people disagreed.

I hope they read this thread as more proof that 5 and 10k guys are as bad as everyone else.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Does it work on American's because your guy just beat their guys

I tried to read the stupid link you posted under a different name, but like most people on here am not German

Translate it or go away

American's what?

I don't see how. Kisorio was a marathon guy. His contribution makes 5K and 10K guys cleaner.

asdfsadf wrote:

Last week I argued that there was nothing special about 10k guys and they doped as much as anyone.

A bunch of people disagreed.

I hope they read this thread as more proof that 5 and 10k guys are as bad as everyone else.

It's not a question of what event they run as much as whether they have motive and means to dope. The motive is obvious - financial gains. The doctors have the means, and if this story is accurate, they are trading their services for a percentage of the winnings. So it all comes down to the ethics of the individual, and whether they are willing to dope.

asdfsadf wrote:

Last week I argued that there was nothing special about 10k guys and they doped as much as anyone.

A bunch of people disagreed.

I hope they read this thread as more proof that 5 and 10k guys are as bad as everyone else.

you still have the problem, which I believe you have acknowledged, of the massive lack of positive tests of long distance runners, especially in Kenya, Ethiopia and the US - the three distance running powers.

If they can catch multitudes of eastern europeans and north african middle distance runners, I have to think they can catch E African and US long distance runners...but they haven't.

So this is one piece of evidence, but it doesn't prove much. I have no way to evaluate Kisorio's claims of widespread PEDs in Kenya.

agip wrote:

asdfsadf wrote:

Last week I argued that there was nothing special about 10k guys and they doped as much as anyone.

A bunch of people disagreed.

I hope they read this thread as more proof that 5 and 10k guys are as bad as everyone else.

you still have the problem, which I believe you have acknowledged, of the massive lack of positive tests of long distance runners, especially in Kenya, Ethiopia and the US - the three distance running powers.

If they can catch multitudes of eastern europeans and north african middle distance runners, I have to think they can catch E African and US long distance runners...but they haven't.

So this is one piece of evidence, but it doesn't prove much. I have no way to evaluate Kisorio's claims of widespread PEDs in Kenya.

I agree. But I think this is another chink in the armor.

bumpity bump bump

It would take me about half an hour to type out a translation but it is an interview with Hajo Seppelt who says that Kisorio told him that there is widespread doping with steroids, epo, and blood doping in Kenya, that the doctors live in the highlands where the athletes are, that there isn't enough money in the kenyan doping agency to do the tests, and thus that the athletes don't test positive overseas because they are doing the doping in kenya where they almost never get tested.

It is a real shame that such an intesting story has fallen into the hand of such a poor journalist. There is almost nothing of substance in this report!

Kisoro doesnt seem to mention epo the journalist just assumes that is what he meant.

Kisoro doesnt mention managers or coaches but the journalist assumes they are involved!

He claims that you cant say its down to food, lifestyle and training anymore as there are also substances involved - is he honesty trying to suggest that every Kenyan runner is doping?

And why do some people keep trying to bring Renato into this?

It has nothing to do with him, and what he said is that EPO would not work on the most highly trained Kenyans - that doesnt even mean that they wouldnt take it just that in his opinion they would be wasting their time and money - and Kisoro hasnt even been caught for EPO and he doesnt seem to know what the doctor injected him with!

Also - If Kenyans are not being tested in Kenya then someone should inform the IAAF and they can stop paying salaries to the British couple who live full time in Eldoret as IAAF testers!!!

Its all guess work from the journalist whose only source is a self confessed drug cheat who openly admits that he is trying to reduce his ow ban by talking!,

Something is going on in Kenya right now but it is going to take someonw with far more skill and integrity than this journalist t figure it out!

How do you know? Who are you?

Seems cut and dried:

kenyans have been doping up a storm for decades w/italians et al as the handlers.

One managed to get caught and confessed. Nothing will come out of it though - people just don't care.

Remember when Wanjiru threatened his wife with an ak47? nothing happened in the end. Same with our 'world best steepler' stabbing a woman last month. Now he is lionized.

This is africa - not the place to look for upright behavior and accountability.

Testers in Eldoret wrote:

And why do some people keep trying to bring Renato into this?

It has nothing to do with him, and what he said is that EPO would not work on the most highly trained Kenyans - that doesnt even mean that they wouldnt take it just that in his opinion they would be wasting their time and money - and Kisoro hasnt even been caught for EPO and he doesnt seem to know what the doctor injected him with!

He does say that EPO doesn't work but he also says that it is totally against their mindset and that none of his athletes ever ask for any kind of "extra support" so it does undermine his credibility on that point.

So this guy said that guy said that guy said there's widespread cheating in Kenya.

Where's the part where Kisorio himself actually says these things?

iguidoor wrote:

Remember when Wanjiru threatened his wife with an ak47? nothing happened in the end.

It's a bit strange that you say this, considering Wanjiru's current circumstances.

You are really magician, may be you have a crystal ball for looking what happens at 15,000 miles of distance.

Or your first hand is not very affordable, and likes to jog with idiots like you, speaking only because in your mouth there is a tongue.

Everybody in Kenya knows very well my position, not only my athletes. The basic reason because I'm in athletics from 1956 is because I found in this activity the best opportunity for measuring the personal moral strength of everybody : in athletics everybody can measure himself and can discover where can arrive using his own qualities only. That's the reason because I don't believe in doping : if one of the most important sources of a performance is the mental strength, you need to believe in yourself, you need to work for enhancing your self-confidence, and if you look for some help from outside your body and your mind, LEGAL or NOT (for me is the same thing under psychological point of view, because in any case you are looking for something helping you outside your ability in training), you go to cheat yourself.

Before speaking not only about myself, but about everybody you don't know, wash your mouth : with all the poisson you have in your body, your stupidity and your behavior as a liar, you risk for your health.....

Exactly right. You can't build new muscle mass if you have no surplus calories available to built it. But you can "rebuild" the muscle you have more quickly.

The idea that steroids, independent of other variables, makes you big is as silly as the idea that steroids are substitute, rather than a facilitator, of hard work.

Your point is exact : IF doping is widespread, I cant have any credibility. But the fact is that doping IS NOT WIDESPREAD. I continue to think that NO ONE of the top runners takes any product for enhancing their performance. The case of Kisorio is the first between one of the best runners, and is clearly an exception.

But is true that there is some doctor in Eldoret trying to "fish" athletes of medium level, telling them they can improve their performances during the domestic road races (where there is not antidoping control), selling medicines they dont need with the excuse they can run faster.

This is not part of any organisation, but some individual behavior in order to receive money for medicines many times without any effect.

The case of Kisorio is an exception because he really wanted to take something for enhancing his performances. But the cases of Jemima (2nd in Boston marathon), for example, is completely different, since she had two injections of cortisone in her knee, in Italy, because was injured, and everything was done following the international rules (you can see in the future the full report, with her total innocence). And the case of Rael Kiyara was again different, because she had a medicine connected with a disease she had already years ago, from a normal doctor not knowing the pharmac was doping.

I don't fear too much the possibility Kenyan look at doping for enhancing their performances. I fear more the total ignorance about the rules and the substances that can be doping or not, from the Kenyan normal doctors, and when athletes of medium level have some disease they go to a normal doctor, not to the doctor of AK...

For example, in many cases they prefer to use traditional medicines. But in this case (they use to drink something like tea coming from plant in the forrest), nobody really knows what those plants produce (and not forget the most powerful drugs come from trees, plants and flowers, so are completely natural).

Two weeks ago, AK sent Eldoret the Vice Chairman for a first investigation about the doctor giving illegal pharmacs. The next step is to create a special office in AK of consultants about the composition of the medicines that normal doctors prescribe to sick athletes. They can call the office after receiving the prescription but BEFORE going to buy the medicine, and can receive an answer about the "status" of the pharmac.

After this, if somebody is positive, is because HE WANTS to dope. Before this, the most part of problems come for ignorance only.

If the German journalist is honest, he NEVER can speak about WIDESPREAD doping. What Kisorio told him is not what he reported in his interview : many things are fruit of some invention, in order to give more strength to his first service, that was organised cheating the doctor in Kapsabet, in not professional way.