40 seconds behind the open 1500. That is equivalent to 4:15 today. That is ok
40 seconds behind the open 1500. That is equivalent to 4:15 today. That is ok
Jim Thorpe was the greatest natural all around athlete of his times. With professionalism and specialization and money you will never see the likes of such a specimen. Bo Jackson was the last athlete that had anything close to Thorpe in holding the awe of the world. There was no doubt in his prime at Stocxkholm he was the greatest athlete on the planet.
You are an IDIOT!
Bo Jackson was 6'1" and 227. He ran between a 4.12-4.22 40 yard dash, albeit hand timed. A 6.18 60 yard dash.
He also won the Alabama HS Decathlon TWICE, apparently without running the mile because he had a baseball game-- in which he threw a no-hitter and hit 3 home runs.
He also threw the javelin a legit 247' the only time he ever tried with instruction at Auburn.
A 149' discus in HS (as reported on Letsrun).
I'm sure he easily beaten Thorpe, but would have lost in the 1500.
Jim Thorpe had a mile pr of 4:35. That is worth a 4:15.
OP question, as posed, sucks. Right?
Here is a list of his performances at the 1912 games. This site has Thorpe at 6-foot, 185 lbs.
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/th/jim-thorpe-1.html
Won 2 gold medals, played major league baseball and is a member of the pro football HOF. But holy shit, he sucks because he didn't run a fast 1500.
Junk Master wrote:
Bo Jackson was 6'1" and 227. He ran between a 4.12-4.22 40 yard dash, albeit hand timed. A 6.18 60 yard dash.
He also won the Alabama HS Decathlon TWICE, apparently without running the mile because he had a baseball game-- in which he threw a no-hitter and hit 3 home runs.
He also threw the javelin a legit 247' the only time he ever tried with instruction at Auburn.
A 149' discus in HS (as reported on Letsrun).
I'm sure he easily beaten Thorpe, but would have lost in the 1500.
You are either a complete moron or 16yrs old. Hopefully the latter. Do you not realize that athletic performances generally improve with advancements in training methodologies, equipment, nutrition, facilities. Trying to compare Jim Thorpe's performance from the early 20th century to modern day standards is completely baseless. How well do you think todays performances will stack up 100yrs from now? My guess is probably not very well.
Middle Schooled wrote:
FYI: Middle School is either grades 7 & 8 , or 7, 8 & 9.
My middle school was 5&6th grade.
7th & 8th grade were called Junior High. The names of the schools also incorporated the above terms.
[/quote]
You are either a complete moron or 16yrs old. Hopefully the latter. Do you not realize that athletic performances generally improve with advancements in training methodologies, equipment, nutrition, facilities. Trying to compare Jim Thorpe's performance from the early 20th century to modern day standards is completely baseless. How well do you think todays performances will stack up 100yrs from now? My guess is probably not very well.[/quote]
Bo Jackson didn't specifically train for the decathlon, didn't have access to any special equipment, was a very poor eater, and a notoriously sporadic weight lifter.
He would easily beaten Thorpe because he was bigger, stronger, and faster. Why? That's another story.
How well do I think the performances today will stack up against those 100 years from now? Without question, terribly; and not just because the PEDS will be much better. I'm not comparing Thorpe's 1500 time to the times of the day, I'm comparing it to the times TODAY. My entire point is how much better athletes are today. I just posted a vid of an 11 year old running a 4:50 and change, and he's American, not Kenyan.
Think of it this way, if Jordan Hasay had shown up at the 1912 Olympics as a middle school girl and beaten Thorpe by twenty seconds!
BTW Thorpe WAS 5'8"
Wes Welker is 5'9"
Dustin Pedroia is 5'8"
Meanwhile RGIII is 6'2" and 223. He ran the 110 meter hurdles in 13.55.
Thorpe ran the event in 15.6 seconds and that was his favorite event!
Do you really think RGIII was simply the beneficiary of better training and nutrition? Or maybe, just maybe, he's a bigger, faster, stronger athlete?
My whole point is to debunk the nonsense about athletes from the past being competitive today.
I don't care how much specific training, nutrition, or even PEDS Jim Thorpe took he was never going to run a 13.55.
Thorpe was also running on a cinder track (without blocks in the shorter events) wearing basic leather shoes in hand timed races. Equipment has less of an effect on the longer events, but general lack of endurance training or knowledge of training methods has a greater effect.
It's pure speculation to say that Thorpe or any other athlete from 100 years ago wouldn't be competitive with modern training and equipment. And it's just stupid to say that Thorpe "sucks" based on a comparison of 1912 performances with modern performances.
My point still stands - Thorpe WON the dec. 1500 in 1912 against presumably the best competition in the world in dec, and won the overall competition. What matters is winning against the people on the track with you, not what someone may do 100 years from now.
I didn't say Thorpe "sucked," I was just surprised by his 1500 meter time, and especially by his height and weight.
I do think hand timing has a significant effect, but it can swing both ways-- hence Bo Jackson's hand timed 4.12 40 yard dash.
Honestly have no idea how much difference basic leather shoes makes. I believe cinder tracks must make a significant difference but I don't know how to quantify it.
As far as training and nutrition, I don't believe RGIII, Bo Jackson, or say, Hershel Walker had physiques that were significantly improved by a regimented nutritional program. Plus, Thorpe was known to be unusually cut for his day and we have no idea how he ate.
How about Bo Jackson's discus throw of 149' versus Thorpe's 116.8.
Or Jackson's first trained javelin throw of 247' versus Thorpe's best of 136' 7".
And finally, keep in mind Jackson never specifically trained for the decathlon.
Again, have to admit Bo probably couldn't even FINISH the 1500 without jogging.
One way to look at it is how he scored in decathlon points. His 4:40 1500 in 1912 (779 points) would be equivalent to 4:24.8 today (at least according to the calculator I looked at).
Using the same approach here are equivalent times/distances for other events:
100--10.8
LJ--23'2"
SP--50'2"
400--48.8
HJ--7'1/2"
Disc--157'6"
110 HH--14.24
PV--14'8"
Jav--198'10"
Javelin and pole vault were Thorpe's weakest events at the Olympics, followed by the 1500. He was strongest in the 100 and high hurdles.
Junk Master wrote:
He ran a 4:40 second 1500
What does this mean?
He ran the 1500 a second time after he finsihed the decathlon or something?
He placed second?
I just don't know how the word "second" is used in this sentence.
and if you had a machine gun 200 years ago you'd rule the world right?This is silly - Thorpe was the best at that time, and by a considerable margin. If he had to compete today, he'd probably not do so well. Is this a point? Abel Kiviat had the WR 3:55 then. Does he suck? I don't think so - he has an Olympic medal.What is your point?
Junk Master wrote:
I didn't say Thorpe "sucked," I was just surprised by his 1500 meter time, and especially by his height and weight.
I do think hand timing has a significant effect, but it can swing both ways-- hence Bo Jackson's hand timed 4.12 40 yard dash.
Honestly have no idea how much difference basic leather shoes makes. I believe cinder tracks must make a significant difference but I don't know how to quantify it.
As far as training and nutrition, I don't believe RGIII, Bo Jackson, or say, Hershel Walker had physiques that were significantly improved by a regimented nutritional program. Plus, Thorpe was known to be unusually cut for his day and we have no idea how he ate.
How about Bo Jackson's discus throw of 149' versus Thorpe's 116.8.
Or Jackson's first trained javelin throw of 247' versus Thorpe's best of 136' 7".
And finally, keep in mind Jackson never specifically trained for the decathlon.
Again, have to admit Bo probably couldn't even FINISH the 1500 without jogging.
helluva no wrote:
Middle Schooled wrote:FYI: Middle School is either grades 7 & 8 , or 7, 8 & 9.
My middle school was 5&6th grade.
7th & 8th grade were called Junior High. The names of the schools also incorporated the above terms.
Middle, Junior, Senior? Why not just go with Freshmen Lower School (K-4) rather than Elementary, Sophomore Lower School (5-6) rather than Middle, Junior High School (7-9) as-is, Senior High School(10-12) as-is?
Misfit wrote:
a hopless alcoholic
Impossible!
Yes although seems "impossible" here we had if not the greatest at least one of the greatest athletes of all time finishing his life like this. He even was taken to at a hospital as a "charity" case when he was stricken with cancer. I think he died of a cardiatic condition. He had great difficulties to feed his family and began taking odd jobs especially during the deppression. Nevertheless,he became an icon in sports and highly revered among American Indian nations. Despite his "shortcommings" he was and always will be great.
Just for the record, that was on of the 15 events he competed in during the Olympics.
Thorpe won TWO gold medals.
HUGE Thorpe Fan wrote:
Just for the record, that was on of the 15 events he competed in during the Olympics.
Thorpe won TWO gold medals.
Jordan Hasay would have no chance playing for the Larue, Ohio Oorang Indian football team at 112 lbs. She would get crushed.