Today's mile in London proves Alan Webb's AR was no joke

brit talent2 wrote:

Willis has the silver metal by the way.. not bronze.

Silver metal? You mean Ag?

Anyone who thinks that Webb wasn't juiced for his AR in that small meet is ignorant. With Razco's history at GM for cheating, the doctor Webb used for amino acid injections in HS, his lack of success at Michigan, his resurgence getting back with dirty Razco, his hair loss and highly unconventional physique for a young athlete and racing in small meet and the money involved to break a record, you would have to be absolutely stupid to think his record is legit. I know that he was doing things that were "pushing the envelope" according to people, but this performance pushed that even further.

The Waterboy wrote:

I meant to say "Same exact type of rae due to same amount of rabbits and same splits, but one runs a 3:46 and the other a 3:53"

My b

Glad you caught the correction.

And nice catch in remembering the splits and races.

It's funny, it isn't that easy to get to be an elite, let alone stay there, let alone run a 3:46. And we get all the arm chair idiots criticizing Webb for running his time in a small meet. Like duh, the mile isn't raced that often any where...

Webb and manager were smart to set that up when they did.

They haven't been training in 40 pound vests lately.... Duh.

The Waterboy wrote:

ThoseGuys wrote:

Kenyans and Ethiopians can do it.

Why haven't they recently then? Because they just don't "feel" like it? Or is it because the pace is a little bit too hot for them and decide not to follow?

To them, the mile is a buffoonish race.

I mean really, when you're on the metric system and you're informed that you'll be in a race that's 1609 meters, what you'll probably think is that whoever came up with that distance is an idiot.[/quote]

It's almost as buffonish as being informed that you'll be in a race that's 42194.988 meters long. Now there is a distance thought up by an idiot...

Or does the sport have no history - thus making it a buffonish sport?

Fascinating anonymous allegations never before seen in print.

Anybody can run an AR with pacesetters? I'm going to a party tonight let me get some of that shit you're on! Get outta here! I agree with your "runner" vs. "racer" theory but ANYBODY can run fast with a pace setter? Do this....go get some rabbits and do a time trial of yourself in any distance 800m and up...Report to us ALL...your times.

has to be asked wrote:

rojo wrote:

1. Webb's AR wasn't a joke in terms of the fitness required but I'd say that Webb's AR was a joke in the sense that it was done in front of his mom, his dad and three other fans in some obscure meet with no US tv coverage.

The fact that that is allowed to happen is a disgrace involved for everyone in the sport - from USATF to agents to fans, etc.

Wasn't this essentially the same situation as Bannister being paced to the first sub 4 mile?

Roger Bannister broke the 4 min barrier many years ago in 1954. It was harder to get word around then, and harder to travel. But I am just stating the obvious here.

I think the biggest problem is no US tv coverage. Yeah, only diehard fans would actually try to go to Europe to see Webb, but I think if it was televised more average people would have been interested.

DKCCC wrote:

Roger Bannister broke the 4 min barrier many years ago in 1954. It was harder to get word around then, and harder to travel. But I am just stating the obvious here.

I think the biggest problem is no US tv coverage. Yeah, only diehard fans would actually try to go to Europe to see Webb, but I think if it was televised more average people would have been interested.

My point is neither events were races. Both were set up as time trials without much publicity. That way if the goal was not achieved than it would pass unnoticed. By creating a lot of interest it also creates a lot of pressure and potential for disappointment if things don't go as planned.

I think that was probably the intent for Webb's record attempt.

"then" it would pass unnoticed - before the grammar police call me out.

I KNEW he was on those amino acids!!! Webb WAS made of cells that had were composed of proteins (among other things) at the time of the record!do you even know what an amino acid is? and enlighten us on how do you dope with amino acids.

in-the-know wrote:

the doctor Webb used for amino acid injections in HS

Interesting the comparison you made about the splits in Webb's race and this weekend, and the comment you made about similarly paced and rabitted races in the past never yielding similar times. It reminded me of something I heard from the British commentary team on Eurosport(Hutchings and Storey?) during the coverage of the Dream Mile in Oslo this year. Kiprop won this race in 3:49.22, ran away from the field on the last lap, couldn't be touched, and didn't push hard. No-one else was under 3:50. That race was 1:52 low at 800, with Hamza Driouch (sp?) in third place right behind the rabbits, and a bunch of others in close pursuit. Then the field went just over 60s for the 3rd lap, Kiprop took the lead at the bell and ran 56.xx for his last lap. As he finished, one of commentators said something about how the days were long gone when a Steve Cram could run a last lap of 53 to finish off a 3:46 mile WR. I couldn't believe that when I heard it, but this is the youtube video of the race where Cram ran his 3:46:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXn6fbdsFKM

Splits: 56.01 (gap to the field, Cram closed on the rabiits by 600m)

1:53.82 (57.8ish for rabbit, Cram positioned right behind the two rabbits)

2:53.11 (slowed to a 59.3, Cram took over just after the bell)

3:46.30 (53.2!! last lap)

This race followed the same pattern as the one this weekend, and even though Cram had some company, he was never challenged on his last lap. I wonder if Kiprop could have given Cram a run in a race like this - the same splits in Oslo, 27 years later (slightly faster at 800, slower 3rd lap) took him to a time which was 3s slower, all of that time difference coming on the last lap! Cram was right behind the rabbits, perfect position, whereas Kiprop was ambling along on the outside for most of the first three laps, and didn't get to the front until just before the bell. I wonder if Kiprop has that kind of time in him. But I do agree with you, Webb's AR timewise is among the very elite of mile times ever. There was something amazing about the British milers of the 80s, though - and check out the lineup for that race. And there was some old fashioned sportsmanship to be seen too - in the last bit of loosening up before the runners were lined up, Bile reaches out to shake Cram's hand. Don't see much of that these days.

MaybeTruthLies wrote:

Anybody can run an AR with pacesetters? I'm going to a party tonight let me get some of that shit you're on! Get outta here! I agree with your "runner" vs. "racer" theory but ANYBODY can run fast with a pace setter? Do this....go get some rabbits and do a time trial of yourself in any distance 800m and up...Report to us ALL...your times.

Do you know how to read dog? My whole post was about how I'm arguing AGAINST what you just posted. It is other people that say Webb can only run fast if he has a perfect time trial set up for him and that anyone can do that, while many others are better because they can race and he can't.

It's other people that say that. What I'm saying is that the mile in London was perfectly set up just like Webb's run with rabbits that were just as fast, yet they were unable to do it.

The Waterboy wrote:

Webb's 3:46 was no joke. Not just anybody can do what he did.

erm, nobody has ever said 3:46 is a joke, have they? hardly anyone has ever done what he did.

erm wrote:

The Waterboy wrote:

Webb's 3:46 was no joke. Not just anybody can do what he did.

erm, nobody has ever said 3:46 is a joke, have they? hardly anyone has ever done what he did.

Seriously, 3:46 says enough on its own

Well we'll see who's better when Willis and Webb meet in the 1500m in the Olympics... I mean, when Lagat and Webb meet in the 5k in the Olympics...

I mean, when my sister meets him in a road race 5k this fall.

I know what amino acids are, my friend. You string enough of them together properly, you get a sequence that "boosts" your blood (ummm... EPO). Taking amino acid injections that "push the envelope" is what Webb did. Not many clean athletes take amino acid injections by the way. He got away from the doctor while at UM and failed to perform. He went back and did much better. If you think it was Razco over Warhurst (who coached Sullivan and Willis among others), you are just uninformed. I don't think you're an idiot, just uninformed. I just happen to have more intimate knowledge of these things.

ThoseGuys wrote:

Kenyans and Ethiopians can do it.

Actually it's just the Kenyans. The Ethiopian national record for the mile is 3:48.95 and the 1500m is 3:31.15. So you can suck it.

has to be asked wrote:

DKCCC wrote:

Roger Bannister broke the 4 min barrier many years ago in 1954. It was harder to get word around then, and harder to travel. But I am just stating the obvious here.

I think the biggest problem is no US tv coverage. Yeah, only diehard fans would actually try to go to Europe to see Webb, but I think if it was televised more average people would have been interested.

My point is neither events were races. Both were set up as time trials without much publicity. That way if the goal was not achieved than it would pass unnoticed. By creating a lot of interest it also creates a lot of pressure and potential for disappointment if things don't go as planned.

I think that was probably the intent for Webb's record attempt.

This historic event took place on 6 May 1954 during a meet between British AAA and Oxford University at Iffley Road Track in Oxford. It was watched by about 3,000 spectators