did fam appeal? wrote:
Did Fam go through whatever appeal process Webb did? If not, this whole discussion is meaningless.
Fam technically is not allowed to even appeal until 48 hours before the race. Webb should have been held to the same rules, but he somehow got in earlier.
They should a competitive clause to Rule 8 of the USATF handbook:At the discretion of the meet coordinator, athletes may be added to an event who don't satisfy the other automatic qualifying standards if it is deemed that they will increase the overall competitiveness. No more than 1 athlete per event may qualify for this exception.
call my lawyer wrote:
did fam appeal? wrote:Did Fam go through whatever appeal process Webb did? If not, this whole discussion is meaningless.
Fam technically is not allowed to even appeal until 48 hours before the race. Webb should have been held to the same rules, but he somehow got in earlier.
wejo wrote:
and actually came closer to qualifying than Webb.
.
You are incorrect, Webb did qualify in another event with the A trials standard, that is a sign of his fitness which Fam has not shown this year. In Fam's last chance he ran 8:52ish - not a great proof that he is ready to mix it up. Webb freaking tempo ran a 13:49 after pacing half the race, and after running the A trials standard.
I'm not saying Webb should be in, but I don't think his presence justifies Fam's at all.
Crazy 8 wrote:
They should a competitive clause to Rule 8 of the USATF handbook:
At the discretion of the meet coordinator, athletes may be added to an event who don't satisfy the other automatic qualifying standards if it is deemed that they will increase the overall competitiveness. No more than 1 athlete per event may qualify for this exception.
That's basically what the appeal process is. Except there isn't even a caveat about competitiveness currently. No standards at all except for the judge liking your leotard.
Fam "tempo ran" a steeple solo in 8:38 in May. Second place was over 40 seconds back.
He did not step on the track one time in 2011. Came out the gate in 2012 and ran a steeple half a second off from qualifying from the trials in a solo run. Show me anyone in the steeple who can do that?
Looks like he beat Ben Bruce at 5th ave mile in 1 of 2 races Fam ran in 2011. Fam 3:57.1 Bruce 4:00.4
He is returning trials champion in the steeple.
He front runs to make the races faster and more exciting.
He is a great hurdler probaly best out there so he would most likely help the race in many ways.
Steeplechases run up to 20 competitors regularly with very little issue unless there are runners slow enough to get lapped. Fam actually lapped nearly the entire race he did in May. Probably slowed him down and hurt his time. No one fell and got hurt in that race.
Why Webb would get in a 5k in advance of decration window with a provisional time? That is very questionable. Its not even his event. Is USATF asking to get outted on their possible collusion with NIKE or what? Pretty brazen.
Crazy 8 wrote:
They should a competitive clause to Rule 8 of the USATF handbook:
At the discretion of the meet coordinator, athletes may be added to an event who don't satisfy the other automatic qualifying standards if it is deemed that they will increase the overall competitiveness. No more than 1 athlete per event may qualify for this exception.
A lawyer could have a field day with the phrase "increase the overall competiveness." Throwing a horny bull into the 1500 could do a lot to increase the overall competitiveness.
From what I understand Fam has some allergy issues.So you are criticizing Fam for attempting to qualify. Webb could have been made to qualify. But apparently he was told in advance he was in the meet if the 48 hour rule is supposed to be enforced.
insightlessness wrote:
You are incorrect, Webb did qualify in another event with the A trials standard, that is a sign of his fitness which Fam has not shown this year. In Fam's last chance he ran 8:52ish - not a great proof that he is ready to mix it up. Webb freaking tempo ran a 13:49 after pacing half the race, and after running the A trials standard.
I'm not saying Webb should be in, but I don't think his presence justifies Fam's at all.
NJK&YU wrote:
How about instead of creating a class of privileged athletes, based on dubious accomplishments in previous Olympics, which are only dubiously relevant to what they can do this year, we just say that a qualifying time for the distance above or below the distance you want to run can be used.
Say Webb has the 12th best 1500m time, that can also count as the 12th best 800m time or the 12th best 5000m time or even the 12th best steeple time. To use his 1500m time in a different race, all he has to do is give up his spot in the 1500m.
What a bad idea. Cannot even follow the logic there. How about they just say you need to qualify for the event you intend to compete in. After all if you are truly elite this should be no problem right?
I think it could make the 5000 a little more interesting. If Webb makes the final, one presumes that the other runners would prefer not to have to outkick Webb at the end of a 13:45 race to make the team.
Fam is not a Nike guy
Okay, what's next?
No, I'm not criticizing anyone at all, but pointing out one does not apply to the other. Webb QUALIFIED for the trials, Fam did not. The powers that be decided to allow him to run the 5000 obviously based on his credentials and expected current fitness. Fam fell short of Qualifying, I would not complain if the powers that be decided to let him in the Steeple, but I feel that Webb's situation has no bearing on Fam's who in fact bombed his last attempt to qualify. I could see those who make these decisions might thing that Webb may be in shape to run the Olympic A standard whereas based on Fam's last performance they may think otherwise of him. Again, I don't care if they let him in or care that they let Webb in, but you are wrong to think any injustice would be perpetrated toward Fam if he is left home.
wejo wrote:
From what I understand Fam has some allergy issues.
So you are criticizing Fam for attempting to qualify. Webb could have been made to qualify. But apparently he was told in advance he was in the meet if the 48 hour rule is supposed to be enforced.
insightlessness wrote:You are incorrect, Webb did qualify in another event with the A trials standard, that is a sign of his fitness which Fam has not shown this year. In Fam's last chance he ran 8:52ish - not a great proof that he is ready to mix it up. Webb freaking tempo ran a 13:49 after pacing half the race, and after running the A trials standard.
I'm not saying Webb should be in, but I don't think his presence justifies Fam's at all.
The qualifying process is a complete joke. In 2008, there were provisional athletes who made the trip for the women's 1500 which was supposed to have 30 women (also insane since each of 3 heats should have had 12 but whatever), anyway after the 5k some women scratched bringing the field down to 27 or 28 (this was still days out from the first round of the 1500). Did they let 2 more women in? NO!
They don't even follow the written rules, never mind the nonsense rules in Chaplin's head. Anyone around for the women's 800 in 2008 knows that an appeal to USATF is the most ridiculous, Nike-centric process around.
The Athlete's Union should be absolutely up in arms about this development, but they will never say anything. I was under the impression that the point of a union is to make sure that its members are being treated fairly.
Saw Fam lead but fade in a decent steeple in early June at the Music City Distance Carnival (nice meet, Whitman broke 4 as a master). fame is a gutsy enertaining runner. With current rule exceptions, I hope he gets in the Trials.
altoroad wrote:
I think it could make the 5000 a little more interesting. If Webb makes the final, one presumes that the other runners would prefer not to have to outkick Webb at the end of a 13:45 race to make the team.
Webb would only make the team if he finishes top 3 AND goes under the A standard. If the winner finishes in 13:45, they will take the top 3 who have the run under 13:20. So having Webb in the final would be an incentive for the favorites to go out slow. It would force Webb (or someone else who needs the A) to do the pacemaking. So it WOULD make it more interesting, but not in the way you describe.
ANY chance Webb goes for the A-standard in the prelim? He probably won't. But getting the A in the final, after a med-fast, hard kicking prelim is a tall order. But getting the A fresh, then able to sit on your own race in the final... He prob. won't... But still...
letspetition.com
we want fam!
The British and Kenyan selection processes must really infuriate you guys. Imagine if it weren't just the Trials that USATF could make subjective decisions about.
I agree, Famiglietti should be in because he has made more national team appearances than Webb. He also is a fan favorite. Has Famiglietti ever appeared in a WC or Olympic final? I know Webb made more than one WC final, and been in contention up until the very end.
these are ridiculous reasons to put a runner in a race over someone else. it should be time and time alone. we're runners, not figure skaters or gymnasts. but... if they're going to put in Webb they need to put in Fam. Even the mafia has rules they live by.
Hazel Clark is a former Olympian and sponsored by Nike, but she did not get in.