Alan Webb started the current U.S. running resurgence

High School or anyone else running middle distance has had nothing to do with Americans being much more competitive in the Marathon.

Why was this the fastest ever Marathon Trials on both mens and womens sides?

I think I have something to do with a world wide running resurgence. Who the hell is Alvin Webb? I command 400k per race, I'm the only reason people are paying attention to track and field besides running geeks. Fuca A. Webb!

Pre died because he was a f*cking idiot. The same idiot that cost himself a medal in Munich doing stupid sh*t.

Like Pre, Webb has also done stupid sh*t that cost him multiple medals in WC's and a finals appearance in the OG. Amazingly he hasn't killed himself. This is progress people, U.S distance runners are slowly learnings.

Its only taken us 30 years but progress is progress.

Leonard Shivolitz wrote:

High School or anyone else running middle distance has had nothing to do with Americans being much more competitive in the Marathon.

Why was this the fastest ever Marathon Trials on both mens and womens sides?

Are you kidding?. Hall, Ritz...they were a huge part of the continued resurgence. So yes it has a lot to do with HS. Ritz at the time was barely the 2nd fastest 5k hs ever, .7 off the record. Hall ran 342.7 in the 1500 I'm HS and talked about breaking the HS 2mile record (he didn't obviously) but was dreaming big. But yea, you're right...having some of the best ever HS runners had nothing to do with it. We also have had guys from other countries become American. That also has something to do with it.

lesbihonest wrote:

Lesbihonest here, after Webb ran his 3:53 in high school and his AR 3:46, everyone had to reach way down and recheck for their manhood.

Ironically, this may bite him in the a$$ this year.

Ill be at the trials cheering Webb on, and hopefully watching him repeat the 2004 trials stretegy.

I think it started in the late 90s at the H.S. school level with Stember, Meb, Jennnings, Riley, Shanchez and Powell, etc. I also think Dyestat definitely had a lot to do with it as well.

Webb gets credit but Meb and crew were running when Webb was in high school.

I think Lagat becoming a citizen deserves some credit. All of a sudden if you wanted to be really good in America you had 1 of the 3 automatic spots taken away. Webb has been great and inspired guys but Lagat has constantly taken away one of their safe Worlds spots. The bar was consistently raised.

don't forget that Viren pushed back on Pre on the turn just as Pre was coming back on Viren. Watch the video.

wejo wrote:

Webb gets credit but Meb and crew were running when Webb was in high school.

I think Lagat becoming a citizen deserves some credit. All of a sudden if you wanted to be really good in America you had 1 of the 3 automatic spots taken away. Webb has been great and inspired guys but Lagat has constantly taken away one of their safe Worlds spots. The bar was consistently raised.

Wejo you are way off base. You are talking about the bar being raised on the elite level. HS kids aren't thinking about Lagat, and the game has been raising at the HS level well before Lagat became an American. We are doing better because kids are WAY better early on, and that gives some of them a chance to be great. Webb didn't run fast because he had to beat Lagat. And he certainly didn't run fast because of Meb. Same for any of the other HS greats around that time period. HS kids are thinking about HS records. Lagat had nothing to do with Webb/Ritz/Hall/Sage/Powell/Sanchez/Riley/Fernandez/Derrick/Acosta/Andrews/Rupp and so on running crazy fast in HS, times that massively dwarf times just before them. Records in the 1000/mile/2mile/5k at the HS level are what have raised the bar, and that in turns raises teh bar in college, and then beyond college.

There there is teh fact that we were struggling to get 3 A standards not that long ago. Not having a "safe" 3rd spot is irrelevant when we didn't even have a 3rd spot some of the time. Now we have lots of A standards. Your logic is insanely faulty. If anything there was more reason to run fast before, because in some past years an A standard got you to the olympics without finishing top 3 at Nats.

High School kids had been knocking on the door of great performances for years, for decades actually BUT Webb is the one out of all of them that actually demolished a long standing record. Almost everyone thought Jim's mile record would never be broken...couldn't be broken.

Even on the American elite level, in the last two decades, no US runner was really all that inspiring to the young crop of athletes. Yes, Meb won bronze but on a high school level, Webb was the one who absolutely changed the game. Webb ran an elite time as a high schooler. Guys in college were checking their manhood and making sure it was still there.

Ritz and Hall were great and inspiring but they didn't decimate any records in high school.

Watch the Olympic Trials post race interview where Hall mentions watching Meb and Abdi going at it at the US championships in the 10K while Hall was just in HIgh School. I am sure that fueled his desire to be one of the world's best today.

Bob Kennedy deserves alot of credit. I don't see how people don't see this. The first non-African to crack 13....he took lead at Oly final! Next, I agree ...the high school kids getting serious.

Amen!!

Bod Kennedy absolutely started it. He showed the rest of us p*ssys that it was possible to run with the Africans. All the guys being credited with the resurgence on this thread grew up with Kennedy showing them the way.

I think that Ritz and Teg at World Junior XC started it all - they were 3rd and 5th. Some unknown guy won that race. After that it seemed like the U.S. 5k's started coming down from 13:20 range and have not stopped since. Now 13:15 in early season races is common. Those two young men (Ritz a hs senior) and Teg (a redshirt frosh) showed alot of courage that day in Belgium!!!!!!!

Oregon Project undetectable drugs started it.

lesbihonest wrote:Alan Webb started the current U.S. running resurgence

Let's not let him end it. As hard as he might be trying with current performances.

I can't believe no one has brought up the emergence and dominance of the Kenyans in the marathon.

I ran HS XC from 1989 to 1992, which was pretty close to the nadir of our sport, and no one was running any serious volume then. When I was a sophomore (89-90 season), no Kenyan had ever won Boston, and maybe one had won NYC, so American youth coaches had no sense of how bad we had become, and how bad it was going to get.

By the time the Webbs and Ritzes and Halls of the world got to HS, I think the coaches -- plus the internet -- had a real understanding of what happens when you cut back on volume, in the form of a decade of ass kickings in the major marathons.

The irony of all this is that even now... with this supposed "U.S. running resurgence" is the following:

1) The US population is well over 300 million people now.

2) We are one of the most technologically-advanced, modern societies in the world. In other words, we've got the best training facilities. Or at least we think we do.

3) Almost every high school has a cross-country and track team.

4) You need no talent to join these cross-country and track teams. There is no barrier to entry. So any HS student in our massively-populated country can join and compete in cross-country or track immediately.

5) Kenya and Ethiopia, on the other hand, probably have 30 to 50 times more depth at distance running than the U.S... with a much, much smaller population. What's more, Kenya and Ethiopia are "developing" nations.

So you can talk "resurgence" all you want. The bottom line is if you're any good, you're gonna get absolutely spanked by the East Africans sooner or later.

Just look at the top 100 marathon times this year and see how many are U.S. born Americans... and how many are East Africans.

The only way any U.S. born American will ever medal in a distance event - unless something radical happens in the near future - is if at least 2-3 East Africans competing in any given major race get injured, sick, or run a really crappy race. They are simply too good compared to us.

It's a joke.

Even all these "sub 9" guys in HS would probably get steamrolled by a 14 year old Kenyan wearing his school uniform and carrying books in one arm.

Leonard Shivolitz wrote:

High School or anyone else running middle distance has had nothing to do with Americans being much more competitive in the Marathon.

Why was this the fastest ever Marathon Trials on both mens and womens sides?

The thread is, of course, about Alan Webb and the US running resurgence and is not specifically about the marathon.

Tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and prove it

Ritz didnt wait for Webb to come 3rd at World Junior Cross