Tadese and the Marathon - I don't get it!

MarathonMind wrote:

Marathon can take a while to get right. Look at Geb. He ultimately got it spectacularly right. ZT will probably figure it out soon and deliver a 2:04. 62/62 is like a training run (or two back to back) for him.

It is all about fueling and pacing. Surging like today is not for everyone. They started way too fast for ideal pacing. It allowed Lel to sneak up at the end because he is such a consumate marathoner. Experience also counts for a lot.

Geb ran 2,06 in his first marathon.

well.. wrote:Geb ran 2,06 in his first marathon.

I recall seeing what was supposedly his training. From what I remember it was very low mileage. I'm talking like rarely more than 60mpw. It's not surprising to me at all that he'll continue to suffer in the marathon if he keeps his mileage low. Does anyone know what he's doing in training now?

He does poor training for thn marathon, and the main poblem is that he runs too fast in the easy days and also the marathon specifric workouts are shorter than that should be.

But the real question is: why he wants to move to the marathon ? One guy like Tadese, silver in 10000m in te Olympics, WCCC champ winner defeated Bekele, 4 times winner of the HM world champs, HM world record, winner of many road runs from 10k to HM, why he wants to move to the marathon ? Money talks ?

Of course that he is able to run a fast marathon performance, but what´s the interest, why try so with a rich palmares in short runs than the marathon ?

Each one might focus on what is his best distance event, and tadesse best event isn´t and will not be the marathon.

Fopr tjsoe of you that say that Tadese coach is a good coach, i just let remember you that Tadese did the same kind of results, right before his actual coach as self-coached. Therefore it´s not the coach that is good or poor. The runner is the one that is very good, a rich talent.

MarathonMind wrote:

62/62 is like a training run (or two back to back) for him.

.

he opened in 63:XX yesterday and still contuinually got slower as the marathon progressed.

first 5k 9 seconds back of leaders and at 10k 21 seconds back, and like 1:20 or so at halfway. pacing (for him) wasn't the problem yesterday.

Oh man, classic Ventolin in this thread!

The guy who came in 4th, 16 seconds behind a winner who jogged it in; the guy far enough behind that he wasn't even on screen for the final 500 meters of the race was in better shape than Bekele on this day? ARE YOU SERIOIUS? Watch this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=828BG3poro0

If your calculator leads you to the conclusion the Tadese was the fittest man on the track that day then your calculator is broken.

Sounds like from what Antonio Cabral writes above that he is overtrained/poorly trained.

maybe less mileage and higher intensity?

Maybe Ventolin meant the Berlin 10k in 2009. Tadesse runs such a gutsy race and totally destroys everyone with an incredible second 5k. Bekele though was utterly superior and I doubt that any drafting would have made much difference, Bekele was simply unbeatable in that race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCB-wrPIUY

- amazing race.

ggg wrote:

maybe less mileage and higher intensity?

exact opposite- more, slower mileage.

"Each one might focus on what is his best distance event, and tadesse best event isn´t and will not be the marathon."

People like ZT and Ritz are perfect examples of why I wish there was a distance in the Olympics that was somewhere between the 10K and Marathon. A marathon is over 4x the distance of the 10K. That seems like a big gap to me. Looking at the track events (including Steeple) the distances are roughly doubled as you move up. It's not surprising that there are some athletes who are best suited to a distance that lies halfway between the 10k and Marathon. I wish the Olympics had a half marathon or maybe a really long (like 20K) XC race. That would be cool. Maybe ZT keeps trying the Marathon b/c he knows he can't win a gold in the 10K as long as Bekele is still around, so the marathon is the next best option for him.

Antonio Cabral wrote:

But the real question is: why he wants to move to the marathon ?

Maybe because the Marathon is the most legendary of all distances and the half marathon is where bored soccer moms fulfill their dreams?

Just kidding - or am I?

Halleluja wrote:

52.43 wrote:

2:07 are second tier athletes (not really of course!)...

Yes they are - three minutes slower than Ryan Hall

Not every runner has the luxury of a downhill hurriciane aided course like hall did. Thats why he dodged the 2012 boston marathon.

Dodging the 2012 Boston marathon and all other spring marathons was the best choice for him if he wants to do well in the Olympics. The Kenyan team will pay a big price for all of this spring racing.

stick with eharmony wrote:

Halleluja wrote:

Yes they are - three minutes slower than Ryan Hall

Not every runner has the luxury of a downhill hurriciane aided course like hall did. Thats why he dodged the 2012 boston marathon.

Berlin?? wrote:

Maybe Ventolin meant the Berlin 10k in 2009. Tadesse runs such a gutsy race and totally destroys everyone with an incredible second 5k. Bekele though was utterly superior and I doubt that any drafting would have made much difference, Bekele was simply unbeatable in that race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCB-wrPIUY

- amazing race.

I think that had to be what he was thinking about. And while Bekele seemed far superior, I don't think it was cut and dry. Drafting saves a lot more energy than people realize. Tadese led for what, 7 laps, and then lost by 4 seconds or so? I could see them being roughly equal that day or even giving a slight edge to Tadese with both in WR shape.

Dlwo wrote:

Tadesse has a great coach as well, Jeronimo Bravo. I really believe it is a matter of balancing fueling and intensity.

Do we have other cases where a runner didn't "get" the marathon at first and then figured out "fueling and itensity" and became great?

Geb's first two marathons were 2:06:35 and 2:06:20, so he doesn't count. He started off as very, very good and then went on to set records. If Ritz busts out a 2:06 in his next marathon then he *would* count, but he hasn't done that yet.

If Tadese ran 2:07 then he'd be under-performing. He's not under-performing. He's running like crap. It looks like he actually went out at a "sensible" pace this time (his 10K splits were right around 30 minutes and he kept that pace until 35K) and he crashed anyway.

Hendrick Ramaala:Nothing better than 2:09 then runs 2:07

DontFeedTheTroll wrote:

Dlwo wrote:

Tadesse has a great coach as well, Jeronimo Bravo. I really believe it is a matter of balancing fueling and intensity.

Do we have other cases where a runner didn't "get" the marathon at first and then figured out "fueling and itensity" and became great?

Geb's first two marathons were 2:06:35 and 2:06:20, so he doesn't count. He started off as very, very good and then went on to set records. If Ritz busts out a 2:06 in his next marathon then he *would* count, but he hasn't done that yet.

If Tadese ran 2:07 then he'd be under-performing. He's not under-performing. He's running like crap. It looks like he actually went out at a "sensible" pace this time (his 10K splits were right around 30 minutes and he kept that pace until 35K) and he crashed anyway.

Bekele was hanging back in the 2007 Osaka race - you can see it at the start of the youtube clip. The commentator says it: "most unlikely for him"! I have read on here I think that in 2007 Bekele was trying to get the 3k record, so he choose to improve the speed side (1500-3k) and was not in his best 10k shape.

Unfortunately, we can't see more of the race, to see Tadeses role. But WR shape? I dont think so? Just because of Mombasa, what?!

I think the Kenyans could really regret all these super fast spring marathons, so maybe we could have a surprise? But really, I think one of them will be able to take it. On the other hand, the Ethiopians sometimes organize their preparation better by the central coaching.

I'm just thinking about my Kenyan Olympic team. I guess I would go with Kipsang and Mosop. Third spot would be between Makau and G. Mutai, but if Makau is injured....Abel Kirui was the next Kenyan in London (because M. Lel wasnt on selection list).

So Kipsang,Mosop,Kirui (or Makau if the injury is not bad and he shows 60:00 form). I know nearly all of letsrun would choose G.Mutai over Kirui and Makau. In my eyes he has proven that he is the best over difficult hilly courses - NY, Boston. But London is flat like Berlin.

V6 wrote:

I think that had to be what he was thinking about. And while Bekele seemed far superior, I don't think it was cut and dry. Drafting saves a lot more energy than people realize. Tadese led for what, 7 laps, and then lost by 4 seconds or so? I could see them being roughly equal that day or even giving a slight edge to Tadese with both in WR shape.

OK, to be fair to ventolin, let's assume he meant Berlin.

I still don't get how we can even suggest Tadesse to be in better shape than a man who put 5 seconds on him in the last lap. OK, so Tadesse led and pushed the pace...so what? He had to, that was his only chance. If it was going to be a kicker's race, the money was on Bekele. If it was going to be a fast race with a hard pace the whole, well, we saw what happened. If you can't run away from him because he is too strong and you can't outkick him because he is too fast, then it is pretty obvious who is the faster runner. Hint: it's the guy who won by several bus lengths.