QUESTION - Rule for finish line (part of the body)

toro wrote:

But...can one chip in reality cross a mat slightly before another while the computer results list the second ship ahead of the first?

Is that what you are saying?

That's what I'm saying, it's possible for two closely spaced chips moving over the mat to record out of order.

runn wrote:

Torso- end of debate. The retired track coach was wrong.

It's not even the shoulder- it's the torso.

We had a state qualifier reversed once when the runner who was originally given first was ruled to have had their shoulder cross the line before the other person's torso (chest).

Also tell that "coach" that you round up in hand timing no matter what:

12.11 becomes 12.2

12.19 becomes 12.2

Back to the torso rule- that's why chips now come in numbers. When they were on the feet (shoes, ankles) they disregarded the torso crossing the line.

I suppose she thinks they should eliminate tackling in football because kids are toppling over. = )

Not to be a smart ass, but isn't half the shoulder joint on the torso?

ray wrote:

Not to be a smart ass, but isn't half the shoulder joint on the torso?

See point 3.2.5 from the IAAF Photo Finish Guidelines:

"Ensure that the Judge making decisions is quite clear about what constitutes the “torso” as far as photo finish is concerned. The exact location of the border line

between the upper arm / shoulder and the “torso” would vary depending on the development of the upper body of an individual athlete and would not therefore be

totally consistent. Based on anatomy, however, we can say that the endpoint of the torso is the outer end / articulation of the collarbone (clavicle). Normally, this

is approximately at the border of the middle and outer third of the distance between the neck and the peak of the shoulder."

Here is the photo from the women's 100 final at the Osaka World Championships:

The finish order is Lauryn Williams' shoulder, VCB's chest, then Williams' torso. The judges took 5 minutes to post the results.

While I'm at it, see pages 52-53 of The Referee for a comprehensive set of torso examples:

Thanks for the links Tom

So how is this thread super hot?

Not questioning the torso rule here but adressing the injury angle - intuitively it seems to make sense that the lean could cause straining type injuries compared to contuined normal form - but then again I've never heard of it happening (scratches from actuall falls not counted) - has anyone here?

The whole body icluding legs must be past the finish line before the other athlelte. Diving at the line does not accomplish this. A torso must be erect and standing to be counted. Not flying low on the ground. Pathetic.

Peter Andersson wrote:

Not questioning the torso rule here but adressing the injury angle - intuitively it seems to make sense that the lean could cause straining type injuries compared to contuined normal form - but then again I've never heard of it happening (scratches from actuall falls not counted) - has anyone here?

Yes. I've been timing with Lynx since 1999, and I've seen some people who leaned wildly get hurt. I've seen some that were losing control fall and hop back up after a minute.

The majority of kids that I've seen do ridiculously theatrical bs are girls running the 400m as part of the 4x400m. Something about high school girls running 67 seconds really seems to send them into some sort of pain spiral that results in them being unable to do more than wail and writhe on the ground.

>>Back to the torso rule- that's why chips now come in numbers. When they were on the feet (shoes, ankles) they disregarded the torso crossing the line.

As a timer I know that chips come on the numbers mostly as a connivence to passing them out. They are actually less accurate than the foot chips. Bib chips have a larger area of reading than the foot chip. Cameras are the only truly accurate timing method.

Allyison is the winner. She was well past the finish line when the trailing legs of the other cheating athlete we behind. U can qualify a torso at ground lvel. What a disgrace.

The lat part of the body should be over the line first is the winner. Plus stop checking me I am friends with Nigel.

klubkip1 wrote:

The whole body icluding legs must be past the finish line before the other athlelte. Diving at the line does not accomplish this. A torso must be erect and standing to be counted. Not flying low on the ground. Pathetic.

Nope. It's the torso. Here's the official finish photo of the Rio Olympics womens 400m tonight. The lines represent where officials decided the runners crossed the line. It's Miller's upper right shoulder and Felix's chest.

The shoulders are not considered part of the torso by the iaaf in regards to determining the order of finish

https://www.iaaf.org/about-iaaf/documents/technical#manuals-guidelines

Plus, Omega uses a special "active" transponder on the bib for races 800 and over that has an accuracy within 0.02 seconds compared to photo timing.

D.Katz wrote:

The shoulders are not considered part of the torso by the iaaf in regards to determining the order of finish

See the message above yours and the photo.

Granted, this can depend on your definition of the shoulder.

Wrong ~` wrote:

D.Katz wrote:

The shoulders are not considered part of the torso by the iaaf in regards to determining the order of finish

See the message above yours and the photo.

http://imgur.com/a/km9M1

Granted, this can depend on your definition of the shoulder.

_________________________________

I think you'll find that D.Katz is a world-wide expert on this topic. You can believe what he says.

My dad's been a track coach for 45 years, and an ace distance runner before then, and he always explained it to his runners that it was whoever gets their chest across first. That is why he always trained us to lean and throw our heads down at the tape, to better propel the chest forward, rather than back.

runn wrote:

Torso- end of debate. The retired track coach was wrong.

It's not even the shoulder- it's the torso.

We had a state qualifier reversed once when the runner who was originally given first was ruled to have had their shoulder cross the line before the other person's torso (chest).

Also tell that "coach" that you round up in hand timing no matter what:

12.11 becomes 12.2

12.19 becomes 12.2

Back to the torso rule- that's why chips now come in numbers. When they were on the feet (shoes, ankles) they disregarded the torso crossing the line.

I suppose she thinks they should eliminate tackling in football because kids are toppling over. = )

I think this rule is incorrect. If you round up 12.11 to 12.2 hand timed then eve ryone adds .24 to say that's your electronic time. I have gone through the process with hand timers during an electronically timed races. I have done this hundreds of times and its not correct. If you take the actual hand time add .24 its fairly accurate. Especially at the low end 12.11h to 12.6x.

I proved myself correct probably over 20 times. I ran 10.32h they rounded up to 10.4h and the electronic time was 10.59. Very different from 10.64

It doesn't happen that much now because so many electronic timers, but this would drive me crazy.

Which part of body decides winner of 100 metres

Why would the body part change by event? Didnt see Bowie's time rounded to the thousandth. How close were their times?