NRR: legal advice after I hit someone's car while running

I had this happen on my bike. A car swerved into me and I punched the side of their car wicked hard and left a dent (and smashed up my hand pretty good). The cops came because I was knocked off my bike, but the cops said that I was "illegally passing" on the right of the car. Which was insane, but the cop asked us to exchange phone numbers and we made a gentleman's agreement that I would pay for the damage to her car.

I blocked that c***'s phone number ten minutes later and have gone on my merry way without paying a red cent. This was about a year ago.

Unfortunately for you, they know where you live. If I were you, I'd just get it over with as soon as you can and never admit anything to the police ever again. You blew it, but do you really want to be negotiating with this person for weeks?

you told the wrong story

The driver almost killed you, you were trying to get out of the way of the car, and you told the cop it was your fault for attacking the car??????

vig: I didn't tell the cop it was my fault I attacked the car, I told the cop what happened: that it was my opinino the driver was at fault and that I had caused the damage. The driver denied that she was at fault, and the discussion went from there with me bearing the fault and monetary responsibility during the discussion. As I said before I was not prepared and should have had a better story ready.

==================================

Precious Roy

Three estimates is just an insurance company practice and not a legal requirement. Insurance companies and people get three estimates to prevent fraud (inflated estimate and kickback).

vig: Thank you for actually answering the question - very much appreciated.

==================================

breathe deep

You should take a good look at your behavior historically. Does this happen often? When it does, do you get mad? Mad to the point where you (want to) lash out physically?

Now take a deep breath, and understand that you are just a prick. Probably a lot like the cuunt who cut you off. Two of many ass-holes in this world of ass-holes.

vig: No, 50% of the time, and 50% of the time. I know I am a prick. I asked for advice in an attempt to save myself money - I did not ask for a psychiatric evaluation although yours is relatively accurate.

==================================

naughtybynature

So it was a female. Was it Becky Gelke? Was she soooooo good looking?

vig: Hah, I appreciate the humor. You could go by Good Samaritan instead of naughtybynature. And no - she was ugly and (understandably) grumpy.

==================================

Pizzaguy

I wouldn't of run home if I was being followed, I would take a series runs through the park, trails, cut throughs, alleys, to a friends house possibly, maybe even to the police station and tell them THEY nearly hit you and are following you.

vig: Valid - but I didn't know I was being followed. As I stated before I know the value of concealing my residence.

==================================

The Emo

Lets keep in mind that if you caused a dent in her car for upwards of $500, you really pounded her car. I mean, I slap cars a good amount and never cause any damage.

Did she purposely try to hit you? Why were you so mad at her?

vig: No doubt - I am pretty strong. And as I said I punched the car - I did not slap or graze it. She did not intentionally try to hit me, she was unaware of her surroundings. After many years of running and countless times where drivers do not pay attention I have found that the only way to get a point across is to hit their car hard, yell very loudly, or do something else over the top. I acknoweldge that, in the long term, my actions are only increasing the potential that I get hurt while also creating a bad reputation for distance runners and other pedestrians

==================================

random a hole

So you told the cop you did it. He is not a judge and you still don't have any sort of court order telling you to pay anything. Let them come in with their estimate. Then give them around 60% or so. It will be a huge pain in the ass for them to legally pursue you for the rest, they will probably not bother. Hopefully all their info (name/address phone) will be on the estimate they provide so you will have that handy if things get ugly from there.

vig: Thank you for the input, I had very very similar thoughts. My concerns: (1) I don't know what is involved in small claims court (if the driver were going to ignore the hassle and actually pursue things that far). (2) there might be some kind of a police report out there where it is recorded that I admitted fault. This report would undoubtedly be used against me effectively, whereas I do not have anything to stand on b/c the driver never admitted that she was at fault. As I indicated before it was a huge blunder on my part to not get the driver to admit fault. I told the cops I thought it was the driver's fault, so my opininog should should be recorded if there is a report - but heresay is nothing compared to admission of guilt.

==================================

the man rules

^This. I once ran along RR tracks to avoid being followed.

vig: Woulda coulda shoulda.

==================================

Ray Jay

In the future: Deny, deny, deny!!!

vig: see above

==================================

I <3 Tacos

Should have told the cops she clipped you and left he scene then came back shouting at you trying to hit you again. Between running and riding many a car has lost a mirror. For some reason no one has followed me home.

vig: Smart, but see above

==================================

DIFFERENT HANDLE

I had this happen on my bike. A car swerved into me and I punched the side of their car wicked hard and left a dent (and smashed up my hand pretty good). The cops came because I was knocked off my bike, but the cops said that I was "illegally passing" on the right of the car. Which was insane, but the cop asked us to exchange phone numbers and we made a gentleman's agreement that I would pay for the damage to her car.

I blocked that c***'s phone number ten minutes later and have gone on my merry way without paying a red cent. This was about a year ago.

Unfortunately for you, they know where you live. If I were you, I'd just get it over with as soon as you can and never admit anything to the police ever again. You blew it, but do you really want to be negotiating with this person for weeks?

vig: Thank you for the anecdote and suggestion, it is helpful.

==================================

[My previous post was under another handle "did" which I use.]

So - now I am looking for your thoughts on the following:

(1) If I do not pay (whether it be some or all of the bill) - what is involved in going to small claims court? Do I need a lawyer? If I can prove that the driver was at fault for not yielding to a pedestrian with right of way - can I conceivably get the monetary claims dismissed? I am clearly responsible for my actions, especially since they were not warranted in a legal sense (my actions were not self defence) - but if my actions are a result of someone else's (illegal) actions against me can the driver be held responsible for the damage? How much will it cost the driver to bring me to small claims court (are there initial fees, will they need a lawyer, how much time must be taken off of work, etc)? How much of a hassle is it really? Obviously the hassle of court will have to be compared against the size of the bill (I'll report it when I get it. This all happened on 3/13/12)

(2) The police officer mentioned that my actions would be classified as criminal mischief. What kind of sentence can be given out for a guilty charge for this crime?

(3) There is a police report for the event, correct? Since the dirver and I reached a gentlemen's agreement and at the time all parties (driver, police, and I) were satisfied does that change the status of the police report in any way, ie would it not be filed or anything?

vig wrote:

I was running, a person took a turn without looking my way while I had the right of way, would have hit me if I didn't stop and I had to jump back to avoid being swiped by the rear end of the car.

Sounds to me like maybe you hurt yourself jumping out of the way. You know, much like whiplash, these sorts of things don't always show up the same day.

Seems like maybe you're going to have some medical bills. Seems like she is responsible.

You sound like a fool who thinks that justifiable irritation is legal grounds to do significant damage to somebody's property. Hey, she didn't hit you, GET OVER IT! Hey, it wasn't intentional, GET OVER IT! You have road rage. If it goes to small claims court, I would hope she would hit you for punitive damages to teach you that road rage is not justified. It's gonna be funny when you have a $500 judgment against you for damage and a $4500 punitive award. The police report will be available to the judge. It will be interpreted as a criminal act (mischief) and you will get a lecture and a (relatively) big bill.

Face it. You smacked the crap outta her car, you didn't slap it. Be a big boy and pay up. If you don't, you might be lucky it goes to small claims. If I were the lady, I would just simply wait six months then repay the damage to your car x 10. But then, I have rage issues.

as your attorney I would advise you to revise your story. You were almost hit by the car and you stopped in time to keep your feet from being run over by this reckless and dangerous driver who failed to yield to the pedestrian in the crosswalk, but by stopping quickly your momentum carried you into the car as you fell forward and your hand made contact with the vehicle in question. Or keep your mouth shut and let me do the talking, that's what you're paying me the big bucks for.

This guy is right. I have been in this exact situation since I have pounded every car that has ever cut me off since I was a teenager. (Anger issues, I know.) I have never been approached by the police but I have had drivers threaten to call the cops. I always say the same thing. "You hit me with your car and I guarantee you a doctor will find an injury on my body that can be attributable to it." I then dare them to call the cops but remind them they better do it right there because if they go anywhere I will also have them charged with hit and run. It has never gone past that.

I have also been threatened physically after doing this but being pretty big for a runner pounds having the aforementioned anger issues so when I go berserker they get the heck back in their car. It certainly makes for a faster finish to the run with all the adrenaline.

See how much it is and if not too much pay up to avoid the hastle

They might drop it you never know

You seem hesitant to lie. if that is the case pay up and realize that you need to commit to a contingency plan whenever you act out at all. Otherwise, you had just come back from a run, were tired and a bit rattled after almost having been killed by a reckless driver. Deny anything you said at the time is what actually happened but rather a result of shock. Take pictures of the intersection and make a diagram of what happened that led to you almost being killed and her car being damaged. Threaten to countersue (best if you pay a lawyer 50 bucks just to put this on their letterhead) for any running injury you have right now that hasn't already been documented I think we all have a few of these). If it comes to it, countersue for enough that it can't go to small claims court. Also file a police report against the driver for reckless driving. The judicial system is usually not about who is right or wrong. It is generally about who is willing to go "all in" when it comes down to brass tacks.

And you're what's wrong with this country.

Basically a similar situation happened to me. Car blew a stop sign, the back end actually hit me as I braced myself. The car stopped for a second and then as it started to drive off I kicked it a put a second dent in the car. I say second dent because the investigating officer completely admitted to me that the first dent was from when the car actually hit me. However he found me a fault because I kicked it and it was raining out. A direct quote from the officer from when I mentioned that he blew the stop sign "well it was raining".

Essentially it wasn't worth fighting as surprisingly enough my homeowners insurance paid for the damages (which amounted to a couple grand) and yes you have the right to multiple statements.

Gist of the story, no matter what, if you get hit don't retaliate and even if you are fine, call the police and go to the hospital to cover your own butt

Pizzaguy's the correct answer. Mamma mia! Pappa pia! Sorry.

But I'd also report the driver to the NY DMV to have

their driving privileges reevaluated for not paying

attention.

See

www.dmv.ny.gov/forms.htm

Medical Conditions of a Driver and Accident Re-examination.

vig wrote:

In a flash of anger I punched their car. I continued running. The person stopped, inspected their car and found damage, and then followed me while calling the police.

You didn't notice a car following you, you ran leisurely ran straight home (which you shouldn't have done under assumption of someone watching you, much less confirmation).

I threw a brick in a guy's windshield and ran like mad when he chased me. I got away. I was lucky.

What is wrong with telling the truth regardless of the situation? You did what you did and now pay for the damage and be done with it. Don't give some B.S. story and then try and rationalize your behavior. Maybe both parties learned a lesson from this. I am proud of you for being honest. If you ask me, that is what is wrong with our society on all levels...lack of the truth/owning up to what one did. The truth shall set you free!!

Just because an officer writes it in a report, does not mean that it accurately represents what happened in the discussion. You can contest it, unless you signed off on the wording of the report. Been there, done that, after an officer once wrote a different account of an accident than what I gave him.

If you're going to cause damage in anger you'd better watch your 6 better. I once put a good-sized dent in the side of a minivan, oblivious woman made a left turn in front of me, coming from behind me, as I crossed a crosswalk at sub-6 pace. I slammed into the side of her van, knocking the wind out of me. She paused, then took off. Half a mile later she did the same thing, this time on purpose, trying to force me to stop. A few blocks later she was back again, parking in the crosswalk screaming that she'd called the police. I stopped and told her to pull over, I'd wait right there with her and she could explain to them what she was doing failing to yield to a pedestrian in a marked crosswalk and forcing a collision with me...and maybe I was now feeling a headache and neck pain coming on. She took off.

I've pounding my share of hoods or mirrors of careless drivers...and also taken some detours as a result.

Don't expect any cop to be symathetic to a runner or biker. They are no different than the average public and spend most of their time sitting in a CAR. However, they also have no authority to make judgement on you. They can write you a ticket sure, but that doesn't mean it won't be dismissed in court or that the prosector will feel it worth their while to pursue charges.

Many posters have made this point in passing, but it deserves special emphasis. It is almost never a good idea to talk to the police. The police are not your friends. They are agents of the state with practically unlimited resources to do bad things to you. Their job is not to help you or protect you. They have no duty to do either. Their job is to determine if there is probable cause to arrest you for a crime and then to appear in court and testify against you. It is your right not to talk to the police. Don't do it.

This is a great post. I want to see some more stories.

Here are some of my own...

One of my teammates took a side mirror clean off. Guys in van stopped but we were on a team run. Needless to say even skinny little guys in large numbers are scary...we were all in the army which doesn't hurt either.

Had some punk teens swerve at me and I spit at them...went through the open window and coated the passenger. The reversed and when they got next to me I started yelling at them and threatened to call the police. They were shocked by my rage and took off.

Final point how on earth did you not know you were being followed? Good luck as what you did was completely justified. Too many runners have had careers ruined by bad drivers including Doug Padilla an Olympian. People need to learn to look right and slow down. I love the guy who accused them of hit and run...good thinking.

I don't think that this is a good setting for diagnosing "anger issues." If you get "angry" when a car nearly hits you that probably means that your mind is in decent, basic working order (notice I didn't say "excellent," see next paragraph). As a social psychologist, my view is that you get instantly flooded with adrenaline, your heart rate escalates, and your mind associates the negative-threatening behaviors being observed with the physiological changes (the body changes coupled with the association is what we call the experience of the emotion "anger") and plans a rapid behavioral response (hitting the car). Each individual's response (both automatic and conscious) will be different depending upon that person's tendencies. Some will respond with flight and simply speed up and away from the scene. Many will respond with an instinctive attack back at the instigator. Others will respond differently, less (or more!) assertively.

Some individuals will have greater skill at getting control of their own behavior quickly after such an incident, which is sometimes referred to as part of "emotional intelligence." These people drill themselves in improving their emotional and behavioral control, much as runners drill themselves to build speed and strength. Why do it? To avoid paying for car repairs, avoid hurting people, avoid losing relationships, opportunities, etc...

So my advice is to pay the bill and work on developing your emotional intelligence. Stop "getting angry" at two ton death machines operates by f-ing morons? No. Controlling that anger more quickly? Yes.