Lemaitre's start STILL sucks, even though he won French indoors

Junk Master wrote:

He's more ectomorph than Peter Snell, maybe even Solinsky. Who knows, maybe he's a miler?

All this nonsense about fast-twitch is B.S. All the best middle distance guys are FAST.

Get him up to 100-120 miles a week and shave off 40 pounds.

It's clear he's never going to compete with the big boys without gear, lifting heavy isn't going to change his physique that radically.

He has actually some mesomorphic features (all sprinters do). I'll garantee you that he has the genetics to be much bigger and and stronger, clean, considering just his FT fiber %."Weight training" will def change one's physique drastically, I've seen it too many times (talking athletes from power/speed/strengh events) to have any doubt.

Fast twitch ratio is everything, middle distance "fast" is nothing compared to 60m/100m "fast", show me a miller capable of sub-10... yeah...

You don't have to have a big ol booty.

"lifting heavy isn't going to change his physique that radically"

I disagree, just based on personal experience.

Without lifting, I'd probably be around 167-168.

With normal lifting for me, I'm 180-182

With what is heavy lifting for me, I'm 187-190.

Heavy lifting integrated with other sprint training can make an honest 20 lb difference, solid muscle...more than that, an additional 20 lbs of muscle on an already-lean sprinter is a lot...and since he's heavier than me to begin with, assuming a proportional gain, his would be more like 25 lbs.

And he could do it, he's got the basic structure--he has a sturdy frame, and isn't "bird-thin" like distance/mid-distance runners can be. He has the potential to pack on some muscle.

That would change his physique radically, especially since he's so thin now.

Also, no good middle-distance guy is fast by sprinting standards.

I'd like to see Lemaitre in a 400m, though.

I'd love to see him try a mile as well--in fact, just for laughs, I'd love to see ANY 100/200 guys run a hard mile! Of course, we have no idea about his aerobic potential.

The proportion of fast twich muscle to run 19.8 the only thing we know about his aerobic potential is that it would be extremely limited.

I wonder - has any sub 10.40 guy ever broken 4:00 for 1500?

I agree with actual fan that it would be extremely limited.

Bryan Clay has gone 10.35/4:39, Trey Hardee 10.40/4:42, Ashton Eaton 10.26/4:19, Dan O'Brien 10.23/4:38, Daley Thompson 10.26/4:24, Chris Huffins 10.22/4:39, etc.

I still think that the best candidates for something like this would be Wariner or Spearmon, although I can't find a legit 100m PR for Wariner, I'm pretty sure he could go 10.40 on his best day.

Without any evidence for or against, I'm going to say that Lemaitre would massively suck at the 1500/mile, even if trained.

so is 9.4, in the 60s, fast by sprinting standards?

Yeah that Bronze at the WC's sucks

As for big weights take a look at the musclebound UK sprinters running slower than when they were juniors

Hum... Harry AA is indeed too bodybuilder-ish but Chambers does/did fine, anyways appart from these two most of UK's sprinters are a buch of fatsos and not that muscular rly.

Look at Asafa, Nesta , Blake, Dix, Bolt, Gay... Look at CL... They are not behemoths but they pack a lot more muscle then him.

The first 9.4 was ran back in the 30's by Frank Wykoff. To be running a 9.4 in the 60's had you in the mix but you weren't winning anything. Those like Hayes, Hines, Greene,Jerome and Carlos were all 9.1 guys. The best 9.4 guys in the 60's...

John Moon...Tenn State

Larry Dunn...Arizona

Bernie Rivers...New Mexico

Gerry Ashworth..ran on that 64 Oly 4x1 team

If Hayes,Hines and Greene were running 9.1/10.03-10.06 and think...

9.1..10.05

9.2..10.15

9.3..10.25

9.4..10.35

Would be ballpark. An idea as to what a 9.4 was....sorta.

You know, the jury is still out on whether you can change a significant portion of muscle fiber types through training.

Most of the cutting edge stuff suggest it's much easier to go from fast to slow than vice versa.

Compared to the general public Lemaitre is clearly more meso than ecto, but he's no Ben Johnson. I've been watching the NFL combine and his body type is corner/safety, not LB/RB.

BTW I looked up Ben's weight and is it really true he was only 75 kg or around 165-170 pounds?

That shocks me. He looks 205-215 crossing the line in Seoul..

Its muscle cross section.

If you get your muscles real big, they will have the ability to move fast because there's more fast twitch as a cross section of the muscle.

But, those with more fast twitch can have bigger muscles.

Thats why roids work better for those with high FT potential.

In theory a distance runner thats 40/60 and extremely skinny, could train to a point where their muscle cross section was comparable to a sprinter, their muscles would just have to be larger, reducing ROM, and probably delaying start times. But they could sprint fast.

Technically if they were a well trained distance/middistance runner with a high VO2 and did this, they might be sick at the 400/800, but their slow reaction plus slow to MaxV would cost them too much in the 100/200.

ukathleticscoach--

Nobody ever said that his bronze sucked, or that he should become "musclebound".

Where did those come from?

Master--

I would say, spending a lot of time in France as I do, that Lemaitre's body type is not corner/safety, but rather.....mime.

And Ben, no, I saw him often, he was at least around 190-195 off-season, but I would not be surprised if he got down to around 178-182 at his lightest. He actually has small bones, IIRC--that, along with his very specific development, made him look bigger than he actually was.

He was nowhere near 205-215.

As for muscle development, my understanding is the same as a combination of that of gastric bypass and junk master.

Both Lemaitre and Ndure should call me after the Olympics, I can take them where they need to go...cleanly.

Either that or they should just keep taking advice from their apparent mentor, Mr. Herman.

He was not 170 in 1988. Maybe 185, which is gigantic for 5'10" in athletics.

Also you could tell he was roided. There are a few give aways, yellowed eyes (which Bolt had), large stomach (Bolt also has this), Extremely rounded muscles near joints almost as if the muscle fiber is unnaturally packed in far in excess of what is normal for that joint or muscle attachment (Oliver, Crawford). Another tell tale of Roid/HGH overuse is early baldness (Webb) and an enlarged Jaw (Phelps). I'm not saying these people doped, just they show the symptoms of doping.

Compare this with Wariner, Felix, Lee, Lemaitre, Powell, and Dix. Undoped examples. Even in Powell and Dix, who are both large, they do not show extreme packing of their muscles at their muscle head/joint regions. Gay shows slightly excessive packing, but probably right at natural limits.

Of course this also doesn't mean anything as Marion Jones showed no outward signs of doping, but as we all know was doped to the gills.

Women may show different characteristics than men in doping than the examples I provided.

Crazy to think a 200 guy could shift gears that way Junk Master. It isn't that he has too many fast-twitch fibers to run a good mile. It's the 100+ mile week that he wouldn't respond well to, and the 40 lb that he can't afford to lose. It might be possible for him to move up to the 400 and have success, less likely that he could then run well at 800, and just a tiny chance that he could then run a good mile. That's how he'd have to try though, short to long.

He won that race with natural ability and a monster drive phase. Quick gun in that race. I thought it looked like all of the reactions were way off

"Also, no good middle-distance guy is fast by sprinting standards."

so would a 9.4 and a 20.7 in the 60s be 'fast by sprinting standards?'