Fast racing teams train fast, or they are not hitting their potential.
I do think some of the better teams have nice and slow recovery days, but you have to have SOME fast training if you want to race fast. In general I think at least 3-4 days a week of fast training is a must to race fast, and sometimes 5 days. The other days can be slower for sure.
not so bueno wrote:
Fast racing teams train fast, or they are not hitting their potential.
I do think some of the better teams have nice and slow recovery days, but you have to have SOME fast training if you want to race fast. In general I think at least 3-4 days a week of fast training is a must to race fast, and sometimes 5 days. The other days can be slower for sure.
This is completely and totally wrong. You're welcome.
Rene the Cart wrote:
not so bueno wrote:Fast racing teams train fast, or they are not hitting their potential.
I do think some of the better teams have nice and slow recovery days, but you have to have SOME fast training if you want to race fast. In general I think at least 3-4 days a week of fast training is a must to race fast, and sometimes 5 days. The other days can be slower for sure.
This is completely and totally wrong. You're welcome.
It depends on what your definition of fast is. If you mean 3-5 days of really hard race pace or faster workouts, then 3-5 days a week is too much. However, if a few 200s at mile pace or some hard strides constitute a "fast" day, then yeah 3-5 days would be correct.
This "paradox" has bothered me for years: how fast should one run their easy days? You can make it very simple or very complex. I like to go complex and overanalyze so I say we have a lot of variables at hand here:
1. Individual variation between athletes (who is injury prone, who has more FT muscle fibers, who mentally needs to be challenged some days, etc).
2. Overall weekly mileage/volume.
3. Workout density: are they running doubles? Are they going hard/easy or easy/easy/hard? Are they hammering long runs the day after racing?
4. The types of hard workouts of course: how many tempo runs, how many Vo2max interval sessions (per season or training block of time).
5. Specificity of event they are training for. Since we are talking college team programs I assume cross country or 5k to 10k on the track.
So in a nutshell, with all those ingredients in the mix of an overall training program, one might put their "easy day" or recovery day pace in context. I've always tried to relax and run around 7:00/mile on easy days but a lot of my teammates at Hansons run closer to 6:00 and it seems to work quite well for them (in half marathon to marathon). I ran with some guys from Oregon a couple years ago and I know some of them run around 90-100mpw at an average of close to 6:00/mile (including faster workouts)
it's the no life style change, no diet, weight lose pipe dream you see on TV
I'm pretty sure that Mariposa School of Applied Textiles and the Sheboygan Area College for Computer Repair and a few other NAIA teams were well known for training slow and racing fast.
For example, Mariposa had two 15 year old Mexicans with moustaches and four Kenyans age 37-44 that regularly trained at 8:48 mile pace. They were well known for repeat 400s in 77 seconds but then on race day they would show up and drop a 27:30 8k like it was nothing.
Goes to show you that it's how hard you race, not how hard you train.
How long are you going to keep this joke going?
I think the long runs count as part of the 5 runs over 90 min. I know some college coaches stick to the one a day largely for time reasons. I am actually a bit more interested in the 10x1 mile at ~ hm pace. Thats a lot of pretty high quality aerobic work and close to a race pace. I have often thought that in a lot of ways maybe the old school interval guys were right. Doing 20-40x400 at 5k-10k pace gives you a huge volume of race paced work but it is manageable with the rest.I also suggest taking these type of articles with a grain of salt. Reality often turns out to be slightly different (i.e. they did 1 week of 130 mpw, it was a 4 week base period when they ran 5x90,...).
What's wrong with reporters? wrote:
I am terribly surprised by this:
"He knew if he was to make it as a collegiate runner, he would have to survive a training regimen that typically consisted of 60 to 80 miles a week, blazing 6-mile tempo runs and intense sessions of repeat miles, and 60-minute "recovery" day efforts routinely run at a 6-minute-per-mile clip. The Portland training program, as then constituted, resembled what you'll find on many campuses around the nation, and, like many others, its components developed organically from within."
Who makes it to D1 level and DOESN'T know that the training will be at least that hard? While 80 mpw may be hard for some freshman, and I don't think that 6:00 pace is what you should do for your easy runs ... it ain't that far off.
Since they say 60-80, and you can count on a 15 mi long run, that means 45-65 the other days. They talk about a 10 miler in 57 minutes. It seems clear that they are only running once per day.
Also, in the revised training they say they are running long twice per week, so we'll say 15 and 20 miles. Then they are running 90 min at 6:30 pace so that is 13-14 miles, five other days. That is 105 just there.
They don't mention 130 mile weeks. They still seem to be running once per day. That seems backward to me.
Opiate for the Masses wrote:I think this is what you're looking for:
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=15744&PageNum=1
Deon wrote:
Your training is your playbook. Do not share publicly or online!
You either don't understand running or sports that use playbooks. Probably neither.
nobody is suggesting a college team runs 7 days a week all slower than 8min mile pace. You're going to have some sort of fast continuous run and some sort of long interval session once a week, plus a race and/or long run. that's pretty much a given. The question is how to fill in the OTHER days.
not so bueno wrote:
Fast racing teams train fast, or they are not hitting their potential.
I do think some of the better teams have nice and slow recovery days, but you have to have SOME fast training if you want to race fast. In general I think at least 3-4 days a week of fast training is a must to race fast, and sometimes 5 days. The other days can be slower for sure.
Yeah - I call bull also.
Cornell guys run 7:30+ on easy days
JtothePhillips wrote:
The Dallas Baptist University kicks ass this way. We train on about 35-50 mpw at an average of 12 minutes per mile. Its proven to be a solid way for us to preform well. Long and slow is the way to go.
Times?
High altitude teams. They are able to train higher on the anaerobic continuum at slower paces.
If you're talking about ACTUAL speed, say, middle distance runners, then nobody subscribes to the LRC fallacy that overdistance=speed. Unsurprisingly, running fast=speed.
mathman wrote:
High altitude teams. They are able to train higher on the anaerobic continuum at slower paces.
If you're talking about ACTUAL speed, say, middle distance runners, then nobody subscribes to the LRC fallacy that overdistance=speed. Unsurprisingly, running fast=speed.
I think the OP is focusing on 5000, 10,000, and Cross Country training.
you run fast when you feel good and slow when you don't. how hard is that to grasp?
It isn't really at close to race pace though. The guys doing the 10x1mile at 4:50s are generally the 29 minute 8K guys. Like Kilburg said its "moderate threshold". Though I wouldnt call 10-15 seconds per mile slower than 10K pace "moderate" for threshold.
What's wrong with reporters? wrote:
I am terribly surprised by this:
"He knew if he was to make it as a collegiate runner, he would have to survive a training regimen that typically consisted of 60 to 80 miles a week, blazing 6-mile tempo runs and intense sessions of repeat miles, and 60-minute "recovery" day efforts routinely run at a 6-minute-per-mile clip. The Portland training program, as then constituted, resembled what you'll find on many campuses around the nation, and, like many others, its components developed organically from within."
Who makes it to D1 level and DOESN'T know that the training will be at least that hard? While 80 mpw may be hard for some freshman, and I don't think that 6:00 pace is what you should do for your easy runs ... it ain't that far off.
Since they say 60-80, and you can count on a 15 mi long run, that means 45-65 the other days. They talk about a 10 miler in 57 minutes. It seems clear that they are only running once per day.
Also, in the revised training they say they are running long twice per week, so we'll say 15 and 20 miles. Then they are running 90 min at 6:30 pace so that is 13-14 miles, five other days. That is 105 just there.
They don't mention 130 mile weeks. They still seem to be running once per day. That seems backward to me.
You clearly didn't read the whole article, because the part you quoted was Kinsella talking about their training prior to the change in philosophy.
Victor Huber wrote:
Villanova men run almost everything based on heart rate which usually translates to recovery days being between 7:00 and 8:00 or slower.
confirmed
If you are training for long term success as a runner then doing more than 2-3 workout a week is completely unnecessary. I dare say it's over kill. A runner would be wise to follow the example of bodybuilders their success is written all over their bodies.
You do the workout you need to prepare for race, then rest, it doesn't matter if you do easy exercise at 6:30 pace or ten minute pace. Running that slow will not condition you for a 10k race at 4:50 mile and doing a 10 mile easy run at six minute pace will hinder your recovery destroying everything you have fought for.
If you can't reach your goal in the time allotted before your big race using this method then accept that your goal will take longer. Do not attempt to push yourself even a little bit on your rest days.