My takeaway from the article is that Lagat's training style helps explain his longevity that others who've pounded much more have not had.
My takeaway from the article is that Lagat's training style helps explain his longevity that others who've pounded much more have not had.
Just sayin dude wrote:
so because it exists, then every runner must be using it?
YoMan wrote:
every runner that had a positive A but negative B sample
HILARIOUS!
Bayesian thought comes to letsrun!
It must feel good knowing you're older than Yoda but you can keep up with the youngins.
someone had to do it wrote:
NJcredible wrote:Lagat's A sample was mishandled in a way that has been proven to cause false positives. End of story. A drug dealer's anecdote about a supposed EPO denaturer doesn't change the fact that Lagat was a false positive.
And Marion Jones never knew she was taking drugs. And Dieter Baumann's toothpaste was spiked!
The difference is, of course, there's scientific findings to support the ruling in Lagat's case. I haven't heard of such a finding in Baumann's, and Jones worked with the dirtiest coach in recent history.
someone had to do it wrote:
Lagat is a doper supreme. You're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. The dude tested positive for EPO. Here is an excerpt from an article with Angel Heredia from 2008:
SPIEGEL: Do you have any other secrets?
Heredia: Oh yes, of course. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don’t excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. I’ve created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers.
A sample positive for EPO, B sample negative for EPO
Lagat, what a joke.
Heredia's a joke. You don't think alarms would be going off if a sample from a healthy human being were completely absent of EPO, a naturally produced hormone? And that somehow this mule has it all figured out how it's so easy to cheat the system and get away with it, and yet all these people still go down.
There are people cheating and getting away with it but on the big top, it requires a lot of time and effort that few can afford (or it requires a national level effort which exists in certain developed parts of the world). It's not an easy thing if you're in the testing pool. The Russian girls thought they were smart, too, messing around with their urine samples, but they were targeted and taken out. The same thing happens with anyone that raises a flag. You know that as soon as you miss one of your two allowed missed tests in an 18 month period that you're immediately flagged for more frequent out of competition testing?
Let me state on thing:
IF GALEN RUPP WERE TO FAIL AN A POSITIVE TEST and his B would turn out NEGATIVE, just like Lagat, Rupp would be crucified and everyone would claim AlSal/NIKE conspiracy theory, etc.
Hold EVERYONE to the same standard.
Seriously, who here thinks Rupp wouldn't be destroyed on this board if he faild an A and passed the B?
Industree wrote:
Let me state on thing:
IF GALEN RUPP WERE TO FAIL AN A POSITIVE TEST and his B would turn out NEGATIVE, just like Lagat, Rupp would be crucified and everyone would claim AlSal/NIKE conspiracy theory, etc.
Hold EVERYONE to the same standard.
Seriously, who here thinks Rupp wouldn't be destroyed on this board if he faild an A and passed the B?
Nicole Blood wouldn't be, assuming her A sample had been improperly handled as Lagat's had been.
Why the he]] are A sample results released before the B sample is tested. This seems like a flaw in the testing system to me. News of an A positive casts all these shadows over an athlete even if the test is incomplete(B not tested yet) It should never be released. Otherwise, why even do a B sample test?
redfd wrote:
I wonder if he is being completely honest about his training. Maybe downplaying it a bit to bring about a myth regarding his talent, and perhaps psych out the competition.
Lagat LOVES reading about people talking about his talent.
Industree wrote:
Let me state on thing:
IF GALEN RUPP WERE TO FAIL AN A POSITIVE TEST and his B would turn out NEGATIVE, just like Lagat, Rupp would be crucified and everyone would claim AlSal/NIKE conspiracy theory, etc.
Hold EVERYONE to the same standard.
Seriously, who here thinks Rupp wouldn't be destroyed on this board if he faild an A and passed the B?
Enough with the stupid analogies. There is good science showing that EPO false positives can and do occur, especially when samples are mishandled in the way that Lagat's was. That's why there's a B sample.
Thanks for posting the link. He's amazing to watch even warming up. I don't care if he has ever doped, at this point what professional hasn't dabbled at some point? Seriously. What percentage of professional track and field athletes have NEVER, in their entire careers, ever taken any banned substance? I'd say, conservatively, far more have than haven't, and the haves might top 80%.
the B sample was mishandled, the A sample was positive.
Conclusion was that there was protein degrading enzyme activity present in both samples.
oh well yea wrote:
the B sample was mishandled, the A sample was positive.
Conclusion was that there was protein degrading enzyme activity present in both samples.
Provide a link to prove your accusations or go away.
Freelove wrote:
Enough with the stupid analogies. There is good science showing that EPO false positives can and do occur, especially when samples are mishandled in the way that Lagat's was. That's why there's a B sample.
Hold on for a second, let's provide the full story. Sure, they have B samples for a reason. But, even without a postive A, if someone less charismatic than Lagat went around bragging about how little he trained, it would be suspicious. Add the positive A, and it is very suspicious.
Yanqui wrote:
A runner would not go from a 14:20 to a 16:20 guy if he missed ten days of training. He'd still be able to do well under 15:00
I disagree. I ran 14:23, missed 7 days of training and couldn't crack 15:30 my last two 5k's of the season (all within a months time). After 7 days off, I feel like I've completely lost my rhythm. I could believe 10 days off would send someone back to a 16:20 runner.
He's not bragging. Heaven forbid someone be honest about their training instead of trying to hype it up and overstate it like 90% of the runners I've met.
One of the benefits of EPO is that it allows you to train harder, not easier. An ordinary person might develop anemia when doing a lot of very hard track sessions and high volume training, but EPO prevents this.
Freelove wrote:
One of the benefits of EPO is that it allows you to train harder, not easier. An ordinary person might develop anemia when doing a lot of very hard track sessions and high volume training, but EPO prevents this.
Nice post. Has there been a PED developed that makes you faster on easier training? Seems like most of the PEDs I hear about allows people to recover quicker from hard training. If you take the PED but don't train harder then you are not going to get faster.
Lagat's not the only one. Remember what coach is responsible for that sudden improvement.
Farah was very talented. See the times he ran:
http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=482
He didn't start training more than several times a week until his late teens
A more interesting comparison might be Farah versus Rupp