...and this school shall be called...Runtopia
...and this school shall be called...Runtopia
I didn't that the heart reaches adult size at 12 years of age. Thanks for the info.
"Just what is it that the Kenyans are doing?" (1992)
"Just what is it that the New Zealanders are doing?" (1964)
"Just what is it that the Finns are doing?" (1940)
"We ran twice a day, sometimes three times. Twenty miles a day, sometimes more. There were a couple of 170-mile weeks... All we did was run - run, eat, and sleep." - Frank Shorter detailing his training with Jack Bacheler and Jeff Galloway prior to the 1972 Olympics (Frank won the gold medal in the marathon)
"Just what is it that the Kenyans are doing?" (1992)
"Just what is it that the New Zealanders are doing?" (1964)
"Just what is it that the Finns are doing?" (1940)
Not remotely a phase. Did the Finns or New Zealanders ever hold over half the spots of the top 100 world list in every distance event as a few small tribes spread over 2 African countries (Kenyan and Ethiopia) do? You can't remotely compare the dominance of Rift Valley Kenyans/Ethiopians with Finns or New Zealanders. If anyone compiled a top 1000 list in any distance event each year, these two would account for half. And the population in question is so much smaller than Finland or New Zealand as to be ridiculous. New Zealand had a comparative handfull of good runners for a few years. Nothing like the decades of utter dominance of Rift Valley athletes. Any given road race with a bit of money every weekend in the US will be dominated by Kenyans you have never heard of.
It's because the Ethiopians don't floridate their water.
I think you will find your answer by following where the former east german coaches headed after the fall of the Berlin wall. I guarantee that Ethiopia uses a systematic state run doping process.
Statistician has a good point.
The past examples of running dominance (Finns 1912-1936; New Zealand/Australia 1960-1964; etc.) share some things in common with the Kenyans and Ethiopians, but not enough to wholly explain their crushing dominance today. What is common in each case: a country's athletes somehow got inspired enough such that large numbers of talented athletes went into the sport and worked very hard for 3-5 years. Good people in, hard work, and time always leads to some level of success. I'm sure if the people of India or Indonesia decided to go whole hog on running, they'd have a good number of 2:10 marathoners and 27:30 10k guys soon.
What is somewhat different: the Finns and the New Zealanders (with Lydiard) really had some training regimes which were superior to their competition. In the 20's no one knew how to train (I think long walks and massages were considered key), so if Paavo Nurmi was actually running 60-80 miles a week, it was practically space age in comparison. Lydiard's advances are well documented. Today, however, I can't believe there is any exceptionally secret knowledge the East Africans have that the Irish and Canadians don't. I am willing to believe they have hundreds of motivated, talented young people who work very hard . . . and I love watching them at races. But does that explain why the Kalenjin tribe alone seems to occupy half the top world spots? I don't know. Of course, the standard alternative explanations are genetics or drugs. Call me naive, but I'm hoping the reason is a bit of good genetics and a bucket of hard work. -- Spidey
Two comments:
One, unless you have CREDIBLE and IRREFUTABLE evidence that Ethiopians are running "a state sponsored doping program," such an assertion is ridiculous and constitutes libel against the Ethiopians.
Think for a moment, logically; thusfar we have heard not a single Ethiopian being caught. Ali Said-Sief, Baumann, Mourhit, Chepchumba, Lagat (although he was acquitted), etc, have all run into trouble. Those are just the distance runners. You could make these comments about Regina Jacobs or Kelli White because they have been caught.
No Ethiopian, to my knowledge, has been caught. Further, and most importantly, the argument that "they have found a way to beat the testers" is invalid. ETHIOPIA IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK A STATE SPONSORED DOPING SYSTEM WOULD TAKE PRIORITY OVER FEEDING AND SHELTERING A WAR TORN, STARVING NATION?
For the Kenyans, I have heard stories, and possibly credible ones, about some of the top runners like Komen. Komen tested positive for caffeine right around one of his tremendous seasons (either 1997-8 with the sub-8 2 mile or 1996 with the 7:20 3K). European runners who trained with him noticed that his eyes appeared yellow and he showed other indications of drug use, specifically EPO use.
Whether or not this is credible, I do not know. But the caffeine positive really happened, and caffeine is a mild performance enhancer.
Perhaps further evidence, though a bit weak, is that Komen's records, more so than ANY other record, has truly never been touched by ANYONE other than Komen.
Obviously Geb had the 5K after he did, but no other person has ever gone under 8 for 2 miles (Geb made numerous attempts and ran "only" 8:01 about 3 times. He seems to have more footspeed than Komen, so all things being equal, Geb should have gone under 8 first) and no other person has even FRIGHTENED the 7:20.
El Guerrouj went after this in Brussels 1999 and ran 7:23.09. This is a guy who has enough endurance to run his DEBUT 5K in 12:50, run the last lap of a 12:52 in 53 seconds, and enough speed to close 1500's in 52 seconds and run 3:26. Komen's PB is 3:29, and he ran 2 back to back in 3:40. El-G, strong as he is, only managed 2 3:41.5's.
With such superior speed as El-G has, that 3K record, more than any other, seems to me suspicious.
Second comment:
This talk of ages 3-7 being prime development years is pretty depressing. It makes one feel as though all chances of being world class, national class, etc. are now screwed because one did not walk about barefoot enoguh when 5 years old.
But enough of my screed.
While I am not at all agreeing with the gentleman that suggested that the Ethiopians ar running a state-sponsored doping program, I have to point out that Communist-bloc countries back in the Soviet days were not exactly paradises on earth, and they had extensive drug programs. While performance-enhancing drugs are expensive, you could make the argument that in poor countries, what better way to raise the nation's self-image than to have a few, world-beating athletes? What would be easier to achieve -- raising the living standard of millions of people or elevating a few athletes (via drugs) from very good to great? China was in bad economic shape in the early 90's and I think that's exactly what they did with their women distance runners -- if anything, they succeeded too well -- no one believed their performances though no one was ever caught.
I had heard that the human heart reaches full maturity at the age of 18 for aduld males, but I would like the previous poster to confirm his source of information.Iwould think that to be young since there is growth going on everywhere else, plus hormonal changes.
As far as Ethiopian dominance, I believe many factors posted here are acurate . One point brought up was there size. Each particular sport has an ideal body type or size.If you are a point guard you are typicly shorter and faster than a center, etc. Running tends to be the slight,lunges on legs so to speak.
Think if in the U.S. the main sport was distance running.
We would have such huge competition at the elementry level, the high school level, the college level etc. People would packed stadiums to watch our distance runners. Think if commercials idolized distance runners. And what if the top 250 distance runners in the U.S. like the NBA had an average salary of 10 plus million or what ever the number is, how much motivation would that be.
What if the U.S. Icons Michael Jordan,Barry Bonds etc., were now replaced by running icon heroes, how much motivation would that be to become the next world champion. What if there was no world series and no Super bowl
but it was replaced by the World championships or the Olympics?
We would be such a force just by the sheer numbers alone. The cream would surly rise.
i agree. its the same reason that our soccer teams aren't as good and have only gotten better with more exposure to the sport. there is a lot less emphasis in soccer on pure genetics and doping etc. yet our teams still suck on the world scale. we aren't inferior athletes like some runners think american runners are to kenyans. if soccer was as huge as football or even bigger then we would rape the shit out of every other nation. if running was as huge as football or bigger then we would start beating the kenyans withing 15-25 years. i have no doubt. we aren't inferior physiologically, its not impossible.
Astounded With Bekele's Record wrote:
Two comments:
One, unless you have CREDIBLE and IRREFUTABLE evidence that Ethiopians are running "a state sponsored doping program," such an assertion is ridiculous and constitutes libel against the Ethiopians.
No it doesn't. Look at the behavior of most governments on the African continent. They put all manner of things ahead of the general population. Kenya and Ethiopia can point to their runners. "Look at how great we are!" It's a minimal expense to the goverments. LOOK AT WHAT WENT ON THE E. BLOC COUNTRIES. State sponsored doping, while the populations lived in Hell.
It's a combination of talent and drugs. Things exploded in Kenya when Rosa decided to begin training them. This isn't even arguable. Rosa came from cycling. Then you Hermens, according to 70's runners to be Mr. Doper, and according to others to be a guy who would do anything to have winning runners. Then we have former E. Bloc guys helping out the Ethiopians, two faced frauds like Templeton (Lagat's agent) among other involved. Lagat was let off, but that was highly suspicious. Read WADA's statements on "false positives" on their website. It's likely politics are carrying the day when it comes to the E. Africans and drug testing. It's very possible several of them have been caught, as some of the runners on the circuit claim. For instance, Bungei opted out of the WC's, claiming pneumonia. A week after the WC 800 final, Bungei runs 1:42 in a GP meet. Who on earth recovers from any form of pnuemonia that quickly? No one.
Put a young Lasse Viren on today's training regimens and EPO or Repoxygen (which is what Hermen's boys are rumored to be using)along with 'roids (some mix 'em) and you'd see a tremendous drop in his times. That goes for almost anyone. Cram on EPO? There's a 3:25 1500 at least. Drugs have turned track into a joke. From Flo-Jo's 100 meter record to guys finishing up a 10k in sub-13 when they are (probably) 34 years old and past their prime. It's getting ridiculous.
Komen? He seemed to fall off after he was suspended for excess "caffeine" - although that was passed off as a metabolic defect later on. Strange.
ETHIOPIA IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK A STATE SPONSORED DOPING SYSTEM WOULD TAKE PRIORITY OVER FEEDING AND SHELTERING A WAR TORN, STARVING NATION? >>
No, I don't think this would be state sponsored. But how much financial incentive do you suppose there is for an honest, above-board squeaky-clean agent like Jos Hermans to increase his commissions by making his athletes not just good, but dominant?
Just saw a story about how 75% of adults in Britain are overweight or obese. Surely the figures are somewhat similar in other developed countries. This is also indicative of a sedentary lifestyle and in many cases a general laziness. Add to that limited participation and it's not hard to figure out why there aren't huge numbers running really fast in the USA. I don't think there's a lack of similarly gifted people here, but we're so diverse who knows who is predisposed. I agree that faith in yourself is also really important, and likewise decry the limits society places on kids mentally (do you think blacks are predisposed to being better at basketball? maybe you suffer from it, too.). I also think that religious faith is an important component in the Africans' success, but that's a more complex topic. Just my thoughts. I'd be interested in hearing the Ethiopians' TRAINING, which I think was the original intent of this post. p.s The kids in grade school used to make fun of me and call me "Ethiopian" back in the 80's, I then went on to run faster than any of them. Skinny kids can make fast adults (though I admit I got more "ripped" as I got older, maybe I would've been better off not lifting).
Bekele said it.
Pray to heaven.
Train like hell.
That's all there is.
Train and you'll improve. That's the essence of distance running. That's the secret behind incredible running performances.
Some thoughts on Kenyan system vs Ethiopian systems and the likelihood of an organized doping system in either:
Kenya doesn't really have a system and it's probably the main reason why they've been getting trounced by the Ethiopians at WC's and WXCs of late. There is no central training system or coach except for like ten days prior to the event when athletes are supposed to attend the national training camp. Instead there are a bunch of different coaches and managers w/ camps all over the place - Kenya, Europe, US, Japan, etc. To suggest there is a universal doping regimen administered by Kenyan officials is to give them credit for something that's utterly beyond them, namely control and supervision of athletes and organizing, administering, and implementing a comprehensive doping program. No way.
It's entirely possible that individual managers,coaches or agents get some of the athletes under their charge to dope, but there's no way it's endemic to the Kenyan system cause there's really no system.
Ethiopia on the other hand has a very well organized system that keeps very tight control of athletes from training to selection of events. Obviously, this doesn't point to anything other than the potential for system-wide doping program. If, and it's a big if, the Ethiopian federation wanted to institute a doping program they could do so with far greater success than the Kenyans. Also, if one of the current top Ethiopians were to test positive, it would indict the entire system. If a Kenyan gets popped then it's the other athletes training under that coach or manager who fall under suspicion.
Without any positive tests, I'll go on believing Bekele and co are clean, but the near sudden rise to dominance of the Ethiopians is getting harder not to be suspicious of.
And for whatever it's worth, Alene Emere, an Ethiopian competing on the US roads was busted for EPO a few years back and received a two year ban. Don't know who he was training under but he was in the US for long stretches so he might not have had much to do w/ the Ethiopian federation.
The young crop is learning from Geb and others. It`s a renaissance period of running in Ethiopia.
They are also very team oriented in their thinking, if that brings success? The comments are always the team is very strong at the moment...etc.
I truly think they are on top of their periodization game, there is not much luck involved, they know what they are doing. Look at all international races on the track for the last ten years, you don`t see much of: peak too early, too late, way off one season without injury, etc You see a lot of consistency.
They are good at what they do and running is what they do. For all the training they seemingly do, they sure seem to be having a lot of fun running/ racing.
I`m still waiting to see that partying Ethiopian that peaks too early, races too much or too little, uses bad tactics, major ego a la Kenyan when racing.
One of the most obvious reasons it think, is that the amount of sports in a country such as ethiopia is much less than western countries.
In Ethiopia the 2 main sports are soccer and running. People idolise runners etc.. The amount of runners in ethiopia would far exceed many western countries where there are many more sports to chose from e.g. take in Australia or New Zealand you could play...Soccer, Rugby league, rugby union, AFL, Cricket, Baseball, Soft Ball, Water polo, ATHLETICS, golf, to name a few. Opposed to few sports in poorer african nations.