Koech has been in an elite senior training group for 2 years, I doubt he started training with that group at 16. I doubt he is 30, but he's probably in his early to mid 20s.
Koech has been in an elite senior training group for 2 years, I doubt he started training with that group at 16. I doubt he is 30, but he's probably in his early to mid 20s.
I spent the past summer in Kenya training and interviewing some of the best athletes around Iten and Eldoret. I know for a fact Isaiah is much older than his "official age". He is a sergeant in the police (just look at his singlet at Kenyan trials this past year) and to reach that position you need to be at least mid-twenties. I had a few runners tell me he is more realistically around 26-27, including a cousin of his. But before people start trashing the guy and calling him a cheater keep this in mind. These Kenyan runners have an opportunity to escape the extreme poverty of rural kenya through athletics, economies of scale have made road races in America and Europe become more like lottery prizes for East African athletes. While westerners, who have grown accustomed to hearing about NFL or Premier League players signing multi-million dollar contracts, may not think a $50,000 purse on a race to be much money in the world of sports, for a Kenyan runner that amount will secure you land, a home, and a future. With that said, this age deflation is extremely common among the Kenyan elite because of how difficult it is for these runners to get recognized. If a 25 year old can say he's 18 and win world juniors, he is guaranteed a coach, a sponsorship, and the potential plane ticket to european and american races that hold that desired prize money. I'm not trying to belittle what Isaiah has accomplished by acknowledging his real age, he is still a sub-13 5k guy regardless. But what I want to point out is that this "age cheating" happens for reasons beyond the obvious, and is a lesson to all of us westerners that our real potential in this sport cannot be measured by the high school and college ranks alone. Perhaps if we had amateur structures that allowed our own athletes to comfortably compete well into their mid-twenties, maybe then we would see a more level field among the mid-distance and distance races.
the thing is some of these africans may be older than they actually are even though they may be said age. but also they grew up in harsh living conditions and open to the elements and sun so their skin could be weathered and makes them look older than they are.
we've been over this before. Calendars:Kenyans::Calculus:Americans
TheInsider wrote:
I spent the past summer in Kenya training and interviewing some of the best athletes around Iten and Eldoret. I know for a fact Isaiah is much older than his "official age". He is a sergeant in the police (just look at his singlet at Kenyan trials this past year) and to reach that position you need to be at least mid-twenties. I had a few runners tell me he is more realistically around 26-27, including a cousin of his. But before people start trashing the guy and calling him a cheater keep this in mind. These Kenyan runners have an opportunity to escape the extreme poverty of rural kenya through athletics, economies of scale have made road races in America and Europe become more like lottery prizes for East African athletes. While westerners, who have grown accustomed to hearing about NFL or Premier League players signing multi-million dollar contracts, may not think a $50,000 purse on a race to be much money in the world of sports, for a Kenyan runner that amount will secure you land, a home, and a future. With that said, this age deflation is extremely common among the Kenyan elite because of how difficult it is for these runners to get recognized. If a 25 year old can say he's 18 and win world juniors, he is guaranteed a coach, a sponsorship, and the potential plane ticket to european and american races that hold that desired prize money. I'm not trying to belittle what Isaiah has accomplished by acknowledging his real age, he is still a sub-13 5k guy regardless. But what I want to point out is that this "age cheating" happens for reasons beyond the obvious, and is a lesson to all of us westerners that our real potential in this sport cannot be measured by the high school and college ranks alone. Perhaps if we had amateur structures that allowed our own athletes to comfortably compete well into their mid-twenties, maybe then we would see a more level field among the mid-distance and distance races.
Are you saying that cheating, lying and stealing is fine because they're poor?
Do you offer the same sympathy for poor people in the Western world or just Africa?
There are alot of Kenyan runners who have succeeded without going through world juniors. Peter Kamais who stopped Geb at the streets of New York in 2010 who started running late in life is an example that you don't have to go through world juniors to run well. Geoffrey Mutai did not represent Kenya in world juniors in 2002 because he did not provide a birth certificate, but he is the fastest marathoner ever. Patrick Makau did not run in world juniors but he is the world record holder. Isiah Koech may have lied about his age but it does not mean all Kenyans lie of their ages. Wilson Kipsang the 2:03:38 marathoner started professional running in 2007 when he was 25 years old, he did not have to lie about his age because it would not benefit him in anyway. The fact remains, Kenyans are one step ahead of everyone else. People are going to try to pain a bad picture of our runners but it would not take away the sheer dedication, commitment and sacrifice that they offer to the sport.
Haha, dude no, I think you should read the whole response. I'm offering an explanation as why these athletes may feel compelled to take advantage of a situation to better themselves. It wasn't until the early 2000's that the kenyan government started keeping official record of birth certificates, so "lying" about one's age is was exceptionally easy to do. Put yourself in their shoes, its not like beating some younger kids in race is crime, and if by doing so you garner the opportunity to win more money than you ever could by farming a tea leaf plantation, why wouldn't you "lie" about your age?
he should serve a 2-year ban for lying about his age. this is at least as bad as doping.
Birth Certicates were available in Kenya as late as 1960s. Kenyans who were born at home by midwives as this was common long time would go to the hospital and acquire a birth certifcate by registering their newborn, alot of families may have not seen the need for a birth certificate or finds it inconvinient to travel to the district level just for a piece of paper. Babies who were born in the hospital like me, got their birth certicicates right away.
Sandusky you ignorant slut! Just because someone questions the age of some of these athletes does not make them a racist. I feel all any athlete can hope for is a level playing field. If a high school athlete can't provide proof of his or her age they shouldn't be allowed to complete. I know, I know...there also is no steroid use in sports. Athletes are just faster, bigger, and stronger.
TheInsider wrote:
Haha, dude no, I think you should read the whole response. I'm offering an explanation as why these athletes may feel compelled to take advantage of a situation to better themselves. It wasn't until the early 2000's that the kenyan government started keeping official record of birth certificates, so "lying" about one's age is was exceptionally easy to do. Put yourself in their shoes, its not like beating some younger kids in race is crime, and if by doing so you garner the opportunity to win more money than you ever could by farming a tea leaf plantation, why wouldn't you "lie" about your age?
You didn't once state that you though what they were doing was wrong though.
But surely fraudulently gaining sponsorship by winning age group events when they know full well they're too old to compete is in essence a crime. But you seem to thinking lying in order to gain wealth is 'bettering yourself'. Fair enough.
I prefer to give these guys a little bit more credit and suggest that the whole 'we have no idea how old we are' line that they spin is complete nonsense, they know exactly how old they are.
As I said earlier, they don't seem to ever get it wrong the other way.
Insider, what about the poor 17 year old American that works his butt off only to be destroyed by a twenty-something runner. Is that fair? You are excluding him from possibly qualifying or winning high school nationals. Should he feel empathy for the foreign athlete? Dude, there is NO excuse. And yes, age does make a big difference when you are 16-17 years old. How many college freshmen have won NCAA Cross Country Nationals?
I completely agree with you, it sucks to have world juniors and youths invalidated by foreign athletes who lie about their ages. While in Kenya, i guess at some point in July, I watched world juniors or youths (can't remember which) with a bunch of Kenyan athletes. The 1500 was like watching two different races, because every racer from east africa was 10 seconds ahead of the nearest westerner. While watching two of my kenyan friends started laughing, saying that the kid who won they knew to be older than college kids. As a D-1 college runner from the states, there is no doubt that this stuff pisses me off, but the point I was trying to make is that its easy to frame the reasons behind age cheating in the same perspective as "we" would have in our own country. In Kenya, these runners see it as an opportunity to take them to next level. Yes, it is frowned upon, but as the system exists over there, they really can't get to a level of fitness necessary to reach the world stage until their mid-twenties. At that point, some of the athletes see an easy way to gain recognition by competing at the lower age ranks. The reason why guys like mutai and patrick didn't "age cheat" is simply because they were already swept up by training groups and coaches because they already had become stand-outs.
Make no mistake, I'm not trying to justify the age cheating, rather I want to acknowledge its existence so that we "westerners" can start to realize the potential our runners have if amateur systems existed that extended the training process. In Kenya, these type of camps are every where throughout the rift valley, and because of economies of scale, families will allow their athlete children to keep training for years because of the economic incentive. Again I'm not judging this, I'm just telling you what I observed. In america, runners can make more money working at Micky d's than by becoming a professional runner, unless of course they are under nike's umbrella and that only happens if they are a star. Its analogous to having an NFL draft that only takes the first round picks, and the rest of the kids are now on their own. Don't you think that would diminish the talent pool? Without getting too long winded, what I'm saying is that there is evidence here that East African dominance in distance running is not some kind of biological or genetic miracle but is instead caused by a manifestation of cultural factors. Give me a year, and I'll copy my honors thesis to the thread...
18 year old wrote:
Imbecile, nobody said Koech isn't fast. He looks like he's 30. That is all. He is a great runner who is listed as having turned 18 years old on December 19th and he looks 30. That is all. You're defending his ability which isn't being questioned.[/quote]
No. If he was running low 14 minutes like all our american hs kids are running you wouldnt be saying anything about him being thirty. Its the fact that he ran 12:53 so now you have to say "Oh theres no way a 17 year old could ever do that since our 17 year olds cant do that so he has to be 30"[/quote]
Obviously you aren't very bright. IF he were running 14 minutes, nobody would be talking about him period. Koech is a true stud. I NEVER said that a 17 year old could not run 12:53. IF you could read with understanding (which you cannot) you'd recognize that I simply wrote that he looks like he's 30. The rest of this b.s. you have imputed to me due to the deficit in your logical reasoning abilities.
TheInsider wrote:
I spent the past summer in Kenya training and interviewing some of the best athletes around Iten and Eldoret. I know for a fact Isaiah is much older than his "official age". He is a sergeant in the police (just look at his singlet at Kenyan trials this past year) and to reach that position you need to be at least mid-twenties. I had a few runners tell me he is more realistically around 26-27, including a cousin of his. But before people start trashing the guy and calling him a cheater keep this in mind. These Kenyan runners have an opportunity to escape the extreme poverty of rural kenya through athletics, economies of scale have made road races in America and Europe become more like lottery prizes for East African athletes. While westerners, who have grown accustomed to hearing about NFL or Premier League players signing multi-million dollar contracts, may not think a $50,000 purse on a race to be much money in the world of sports, for a Kenyan runner that amount will secure you land, a home, and a future. With that said, this age deflation is extremely common among the Kenyan elite because of how difficult it is for these runners to get recognized. If a 25 year old can say he's 18 and win world juniors, he is guaranteed a coach, a sponsorship, and the potential plane ticket to european and american races that hold that desired prize money. I'm not trying to belittle what Isaiah has accomplished by acknowledging his real age, he is still a sub-13 5k guy regardless. But what I want to point out is that this "age cheating" happens for reasons beyond the obvious, and is a lesson to all of us westerners that our real potential in this sport cannot be measured by the high school and college ranks alone. Perhaps if we had amateur structures that allowed our own athletes to comfortably compete well into their mid-twenties, maybe then we would see a more level field among the mid-distance and distance races.
Its ok to bend the rules if you're a poor african but not a rich, well educated American? You must be a part of the Occupy Wallstreet crew.
He's not saying its okay for them to do that but that they live under vastly different circumstances and that we shouldn't be so quick to judge.
quentonkaramazov wrote:
He's not saying its okay for them to do that but that they live under vastly different circumstances and that we shouldn't be so quick to judge.
But given a large proportion of the US population lives in absolute squalor, are you as sympathetic when they decide to lie, cheat and steal in order to make money?
No, didn't think so.
trollism wrote:
[quote]quentonkaramazov wrote:
He's not saying its okay for them to do that but that they live under vastly different circumstances and that we shouldn't be so quick to judge.
But given a large proportion of the US population lives in absolute squalor, are you as sympathetic when they decide to lie, cheat and steal in order to make money?
No, didn't think so.[/quote
Who says I'm not sympathetic? It just isn't (as far as i know) an issue in us distance running.
quentonkaramazov wrote:
Who says I'm not sympathetic? It just isn't (as far as i know) an issue in us distance running.
So you think lying and cheating in distance running is fine, but it isn't in other aspects of life?
Look, I'm just trying to figure out where you guys are coming from here.
He doesnt even look 30. Go look through college football roster bios of african american men and you will see that Koech actually looks younger than most of those guys.